[Page update] At Grade Connectors

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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:11 pm

Doesn't the "What links here" link in the "Tools" box at the bottom left of each page provide the information.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Wed May 28, 2014 2:38 pm

I hate to muddy the water. There was some objection to the visual appearance of the highway AGCs here. Thus, if we are going to revisit the typing for AGCs there are a couple more options that should be considered to reduce the clutter on the map. One is to use ramps. Another is to use the same road type as the AGC splits from. These options would reduce the number of highway AGCs. The ramp option would not address the exit problem that you raise.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Wed May 28, 2014 3:24 pm

Well personally, I don't find the vast majority of ACGs at cross roads to provide any clarity when I drive. I can figure out to be in the right turn lane for an upcoming turn right instruction and in the left turn lane for an upcoming turn left instruction. So I'd be happy just eliminating most ACGs. On the other hand some users clearly prefer the earlier instructions and all things being equal I prefer more information to less. So I'm not advocating eliminating ACGs where they are separated from the intersection.

Map clutter would seem to be a visual clarity issue for drivers as much as getting "keep" rather than an "exit" instruction would be a spoken clarity issue. Neither seem to be functional operation issue to me. Using the type that the AGC splits from would produce the same spoken instructions as using the higher road type and would result in fewer highway type AGCs to the extent that some users find highway AGCs unclear on the map.

I would be happy with any of these options. If forced to vote, I'd vote for the status quo as I don't see these issues as being significant enough to be worth spending a lot time going back to change a bunch of AGCs.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Thu May 29, 2014 1:52 am

sketch wrote:A total rewrite of the AGC rules is unnecessary and overbroad, would lead to an ugly map, would be extremely tedious to implement, and would serve no purpose other than to change a few "exit" instructions to "stay" instructions.

Agreed, except for the "lead to an ugly map" as I'm not sure how a rewrite would lead to an uglier map than the current guidance does.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:33 pm

We have agreed to several exceptions to not using ramps for at-grade-connectors. The wiki currently lists Median U turn intersections, Restricted crossing U turns, Displaced left turn intersections, Jughandles and signed numbered exits as exceptions. My understanding of the upside to these exceptions is the suppression of the segment name on the map. I had though the only downside would be possible display issues with ramps.

However, in response to the routing issue raised here, the waze routing team responded that this is a
3 road type issue, we have a high penalty when you're on major highway -> exit to ramp -> enter to primary street, to solve it try to change the ramp to primary street or major highway


Accordingly, I believe we need to revisit the exceptions to not using ramps for AGCs. At least where there is no name on the segment (like the jughandle at issue in the other thread), the normal street types would be better options.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:02 pm

As you might imagine, I don't know the answer to your questions. I have no objection to trying to get more information. However, if the reason to use ramps is just that we presumed the ramp to be type agnostic and now we are told it is not, then it seems we need to change to our guidance for using the ramp type.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:24 pm

Let's race. I'll change the guidance. You get them to remove that penalty.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:02 am

sketch wrote:Okay, but then you also have to change all the segments that were edited following that guidance first.

Alright point taken (although the ones around here haven't caught up this guidance yet). I'll wait to see what further we can find about why the routing works this way and if it can be changed.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:26 pm

I do find the visuals in the wiki helpful on this issue.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby CBenson » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:55 pm

sketch wrote:Or we need to get them to remove that penalty.

Any word on the status of this penalty. If they aren't going to remove/change it, then we should implement their advice not use ramp type for jughandles.
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