[Page update] At Grade Connectors

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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby PesachZ » Wed May 28, 2014 2:05 pm

With the new FC changes which have converted many surface streets to primary roads (mH, MH), and the routing instruction difference for a slight right turn from a primary road to a non-primary road giving an "EXIT right" instead of "KEEP right" we've created a problem in the map. (Most) AGCs split off the originating segment at less than 45°, which used to give a keep right instruction. Now I'm seeing URs from confused Wazers on surface streets being told to "exit right to ... St".

In this thread it was mentioned that our choice of AGC road type being the lower of the two connecting segments is purely for visual design.
bgodette wrote:...
The rules for at-grade are aesthetics, it generally looks better when done that way. Same thing for roundabouts. The UK likes the aesthetics of highest type wins for roundabouts over the NA rules. Both rulesets simply set a consistent look, both route equally well simply because long distance pruning never gets aggressive enough to exclude such a limited run.
...


I suggest that some this is actually having an untoward on routing instructions, that we change the guidelines for the US to follow what is in place in UK. If we typed all AGCs by the higher road type, then an AGC from MH to st, for example, would be typed as MH. Assuming a departure angle of <45°, the instruction would still be keep right, not exit right. At the end of the AGC, there would either be a TURN right or nothing. You would get a TURN instruction if the geometry was setup intentionally to provide one, as EXIT instructions are only given at <45°. In most cases there would be no instruction at all, because transitioning from the ACG to the street would be the best continuation.

I feel this would have a net positive effect on the instructions given and overall understanding of the average Wazer, and would be worth the visual impact it may have. Considering the UK has been setup this way for a while already, it can't be to horrible. This would allow is to preserve the keep right instruction for AGCs.

Obviously this wouldn't be necessary if and when a "junction box" is ever implemented, but for the foreseeable future until then I think this is a good idea.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby Kobes1878 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:10 am

CBenson wrote:
sketch wrote:Or we need to get them to remove that penalty.

Any word on the status of this penalty. If they aren't going to remove/change it, then we should implement their advice not use ramp type for jughandles.

I am still catching up on this extremely informative thread as it has just recently been brought to my attention. There is a subsequent conversation here regarding writing new wiki guidance for jughandles and are at a standstill until this is clarified.
Have we been given confirmation whether the penalty is strictly MH>Ramp>PS or is there a penalty across the board. To me the quote
3 road type issue, we have a high penalty when you're on major highway -> exit to ramp -> enter to primary street, to solve it try to change the ramp to primary street or major highway
interprets as: There will be a penalty if the route crosses 3 road types. (Possibly only when a ramp is the middle type??) The rest of that statement is clarification. MH>R>PS has a "high penalty".
Does this mean mH>R>PS has a "low penalty"? Would FWY>R>PS and MH>R>Street evoke a higher penalty? If these cases or any variation there-of are in fact penalty-free, the MH>R>PS penalty is unwarranted and extremely confusing. Maybe even a bug.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:19 pm

To clarify one point on your decision to remove the AGC in your first example, the commit point is actually the solid white line 20-30 meters near the gas station driveway point before the turn, not the hard concrete curb.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:45 pm

PesachZ wrote:Another option to splits the street name display is to add an extra node on the AGC 5m in, and only name that first 5m section with the long name

I agree unless we have instances where the addition of a second segment causes a different result in the special U-turn. I don't recall if some special U-turns required adding or removing an extra segment though.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:22 pm

I'm with sketch that I like the simpler form, but wouldn't stop using Waze by seeing one or the other.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed May 28, 2014 4:59 pm

PesachZ wrote:it would be typed the same as the road leasing into it, not the highest connected road.

The visual drawback to this is you then have a pinwheel look with crossing roads with two different types with each right-hand turn being the type of that road. However I am not sure the visual is that bad if we get the expected instructions.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed May 28, 2014 3:33 pm

I believe most of the AGCs I see are added due to the distance of the turn lane from the intersection causing automated map problems. This will be resolved when we get the junction box (soon :lol: ).
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed May 28, 2014 2:49 pm

Personally I believe map clutter should not take precedence over functional operations and clarity for drivers. Also I am not convinced that the higher or lower of the road type is any more or less cluttered on the map.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:55 am

qwaletee wrote:
CBenson wrote:Doesn't the "What links here" link in the "Tools" box at the bottom left of each page provide the information.


Yes, it does. Wiki even reminds you to check for such redirects when you do a move.

I just fixed a double-redirect yesterday.

+100!! :ugeek:

qwaletee wrote:There are also tools we can run to find stragglers, assuming we're still mostly compatible with wikimedia.

We should be essentially the same. I have not yet played around with the many tools on our Wiki yet. Let me know how it goes. Actually it would be great to start a thread on external Wiki tools if you check any of them out before me.

sketch wrote:Fixing redirects is as simple as modifying the links on the pages that link to the old name, yeah?

Yes.
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Re: [Page update] At Grade Connectors

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:48 am

sketch wrote:the page title should be "At-grade connectors" rather than "At-Grade Connectors", and many of the headings should be changed ("Road type", "Naming", "Geometry", "Turn restrictions"; the rest is superfluous).

Absolutely true. The style guide I am working on will show how page names should be created. We are following the Wikipedia style guide and all pages should be sentence caps only, unless it includes a product name. There are a few other exceptions, but yes we should.

When we move pages we have to be careful to also move the links to the page. It helps prevent double redirects in the future.
Last edited by kentsmith9 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed title for future searches
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