Parking Lot Landmarks

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Re: Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:28 am

Here's the simple problem with this - based on this EVERY thing that could be a parking lot will be mapped & the map will become one giant blue-ish blob - making it unreadable & totally useless.

I know we've been "hacking" the map (in direct violation of what Waze has said) to try to make landmarks for airports more helpful, but the fact is that Waze is working on "Places", which will solve this problem.
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Re: Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:13 pm

Yea, I read it backwards - or incompletely - or my brain fell asleep before my body did and I just wasn't thinking last night...

DwarfLord wrote:also need to test for the source of the |P| icon that appears when nearing destination.
Fourquare. Tested & Confirmed several times. (Also how I find idiots who are the Mayor of the driveway at their single family house).

Which leads to the next logical question - why landmark "Airport Long Term Lot D" when it can simply just be in FourSquare (now, in "Places" later)?

DwarfLord wrote:The 50 quantity was arbitrary. I was thinking of lots like this one, a general-purpose municipal lot with about 20 spaces:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-122.0 ... ks=1016823
I don't see why that should be mapped at all. I also don't see why THIS ONE a little to the west is mapped either - in the Street View there is a sign that says "Dream Inn and Aquarius Guest and Event Parking Only"

My main issue with the airport (or similar) parking lot landmarks is that there ends up being several names floating in one giant blue-ish blob and you can't tell where each thing actually is. BUT I can suffer through it until we get "Places".
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Re: Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:51 pm

Locking Old Topic. See Wiki for Current Guidance.
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Re: Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby BicedTea » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:09 pm

So, large universities with lots of parking garages/lots should be mapped as a University location, correct? This is what I have gathered from the various links here. What if the hospital associated with the university had patient parking garages, lots, etc. inside the university location? How is the best way to handle this? For example this one, which is a employee lot, but the Dogwood Deck (a few hundred meters west) is a patient/visitor lot. Surely this isn't unique. Would it be fair for me to demolish all these lots (you can see there are a lot) and create a University landmark?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby CBenson » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:06 pm

DwarfLord wrote:
BicedTea wrote:Would it be fair for me to demolish all these lots (you can see there are a lot) and create a University landmark?
I would wait for the guidance to be published -- that would seem to be my job :). Then if most or all of the lots were created by a single person you could PM them and point out that there is guidance that says please don't do this. Then wait awhile. After some time, like a month, especially if you get no response, take out the chainsaw.

In the uncomfortable case of an editor who says those are my parking lots and don't touch them, better not to start a war, probably time to escalate to the area manager or regional manager.

Those are just my inexperienced thoughts and I welcome input from more experienced editors!

I wholeheartedly agree with this.
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Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:26 pm

The Parking Lot Landmark may be the most misused and most misunderstood. Parking Lot landmarks clutter many maps with bright polygons and names that are, to the vast majority of drivers, utterly superfluous.

Forum commentators often acknowledge that many Parking Lot landmarks could stand to be deleted without bothering anyone except possibly those who created them. At the same time, volunteer editors who are implicitly called upon to do the deleting really must have concrete guidance to justify removing somebody else's work.

To that end I would like to offer the following revision to the December 2012 Connecticut wiki on landmarks which is, as of this writing, de facto national guidance (as far as I know).

This text was not solicited, I wrote it only out of yearning for guidance on this topic. It should not be construed as a replacement for the current guidance until it's in a wiki somewhere, or at least until a number of senior editors have vetted it.

This thread has only to do with Parking-Lot Landmarks. Parking-Lot Roads are covered by the Best Map-Editing Practice wiki.

(This topic was moved moved here from a WME question thread.)

---

Parking Lot. The Parking Lot landmark highlights a parking area on the map and allows visitors unfamiliar with the area to see its name or search for it independently of POI searches. To be useful for this purpose it must be used sparingly.

To this end the following parking lots and parking garages are never to be mapped using the Parking Lot landmark. In many cases, other landmarks may be mapped to cover parking lots associated with these venues.
    - Parking for a single non-transit-oriented destination, such as a business, office, church, park, hospital, gym, school, museum, restaurant, campground, etc.
    - Employee, resident, or guest parking;
    - Parking for attendees of events or services;
    - Parking for fewer than 50 vehicles regardless of purpose, with the sole exception of airport cell-phone lots;
    - Parking associated with campuses, parklands, shopping malls, theme parks, private installations, and office parks or complexes of any size or purpose.
    - Generic unnamed/unidentified parking lots associated with an already-landmarked transit complex such as an Airport, Train station, or Bus Station/Bus Terminal.
The following lots/garages are encouraged to be mapped using the Parking Lot landmark. NOTE: Parking Lot Landmarks suppress Traffic Jams & Automatic System Detected Errors and as such care should be taken to ensure they don't snap to roads.
    - Generic Park & Ride and similar municipal commuter parking not otherwise landmarked with a transit-center type. Always name these "Park & Ride", or whatever generic designation is used locally, to facilitate searches. Mapped at the fence line.
    - A municipal parking lot or garage associated with a landmarked transit complex that has a unique name or identifier, such as "Economy Lot 1", "Hourly Lot 3", "Domestic Garage", "Long-Term Parking", "South Lot", "Cell-Phone Parking", etc. Map to the extent of the lot/garage and assign the given name. If the lot is contained within the transit-complex landmark, there is no need to repeat the name of the larger landmark; for example if the Domestic Garage is contained within the "SFO San Francisco International Airport" landmark boundaries, it can simply be labeled "Domestic Garage" not "SFO San Francisco International Airport Domestic Garage".
    - Rental car return located on airport property, provided all on-airport vendors share the same car return area (to avoid having to label separate return areas by commercial vendor), named "Rental Car Return".
A "gray area" exists between these, including, for example, municipal or private parking facilities serving a downtown area; marina parking; and privately-operated transit/airport lots. At this time, it is not yet encouraged to apply the Parking Lot landmark to any facility not explicitly approved above. These are possible POI situations, also need to test for the source of the |P| icon that appears when nearing destination.
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Re: Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:06 am

The 50 quantity was arbitrary. I was thinking of lots like this one, a general-purpose municipal lot with about 20 spaces:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-122.0 ... ks=1016823

In the absence of a size threshold, this lot would fall in the "gray area" between prohibited and encouraged PL landmarks. My gut feeling is that we don't want to landmark little things like this but I don't feel too strongly about it.

Could anyone offer a permalink or two for small lots that would pass the other tests?
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Re: Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:52 am

AndyPoms wrote:based on this EVERY thing that could be a parking lot will be mapped

The first list of items are those never to be landmarked; this prohibited list does indeed cover just about everything though. There would be very few PL landmarks if this guidance were followed. Some Park & Rides, named airport lots, and perhaps municipal city lots as well.

What is the recommendation on how to cope with PL landmarks at this time given a new approach is coming? Cease discouraging/deleting them?
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Re: Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:57 pm

Besides clutter, the other argument against small lots might be, if it's crowded enough one needs a map to find parking, it's probably also crowded enough that the small lots are more likely to be full versus larger lots with more turnover so why direct drivers to small lots. But I'm now realizing that may not be true everywhere, particularly a place with an abundance of small lots but few if any big lots.

From Andy's post it sounds like there might not be universal agreement about small general-purpose municipal lots being OK, but personally I would be content removing that restriction. The remaining restrictions wipe out the vast majority of clutter anyway.

The bigger question to me is whether to explicitly encourage landmarking general-purpose municipal lots (big or small) as opposed to leaving them in the gray area between prohibited and encouraged where they are at present.
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Re: Parking Lot Landmarks

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:03 am

AndyPoms wrote:I also don't see why THIS ONE a little to the west is mapped either - in the Street View there is a sign that says "Dream Inn and Aquarius Guest and Event Parking Only"
Oh, don't get me started! :evil: It's lots like these why I want a clear "prohibited" list so I have something backing me up before going in with the chainsaw.
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