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Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:11 am
by
We have had a blank page for Ferries ever since I joined. Recently user Panther37 proposed a number of steps outlined on this talk page.

I have not spent any time on mapping ferries, so I did not want to pass judgment on these steps. I had previously thought that with time restrictions we could solve ferries with just that feature setting for both segment directions. Separately set toll if present.

I had not considered the other points Panther37 proposed, but many of them make sense. However the parking lot road seems to be a problem and unnecessary since the routing engine will shortly determine the average speed through that area and set the appropriate routing.

If we want to have this info on a separate page, that is fine and if we want to include it anywhere else, we can transclude it as desired.
Panther37 wrote:Here is how I have made ferries:
1. You need to be able to edit AT LEAST both ports. The entire area is preferable.
2. Turn on GPS points. It seems like people like to leave Waze on in the ferry.
3. Draw a road on the ACTUAL path the car would take.
3.1. Have the road right up to the part of the dock where it would load.
3.2. Draw the road using the GPS points to align with the usual path of the ferry in the water.
4. Road type should be "Parking Lot Road" because, ferries are slow. If there is a "High-Speed" ferry, upgrade the road.
5. Make sure the road is a "Toll Road" unless the ferry is free.
6. Don't forget to use time restrictions.
6.1. The first ferry of the day is when it should open.
6.2. The last ferry of the day is when it should close.

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:37 pm
by AlanOfTheBerg
In general, I've said before, and how Washington state has done it, that the ferry crossing should match the type of roadway on either side, whether that is mH or Primary (there are Primary-types county ferries in WA too).

Given that Waze routing still has significant preference for any type of roadway > Primary, this may actually be problematic. Despite the fact that a mH shows a "slow" speed in the ferry lanes, I would bet it is still shown as preferred over faster/longer routes which stay on land.

I wonder if, in general, ferries should not be typed > Primary?

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:47 am
by AndyPoms
Waze has stated that they are working on ways to support Ferry (Fairy) properly. I suggest waiting to write this page until their system comes out.

Also, I've seen serious problems when a Ferry is mapped here in CT - which is why none of ours are mapped at this time.

There are GPS traces that run across Long Island Sound and they get REALLY wide in the middle (just about 5000 meters wide = ~3 miles). I don't think Waze will snap users to that.

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:29 pm
by AndyPoms
jemay wrote:The ferry system in Washington State works. For the most part, the Ferrys are classified as Minor Freeway and toll.
What is "Minor Freeway"?

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:28 am
by AndyPoms
jemay wrote:The actual ferry crossings (over the water).
Not what I meant... We don't have a "Minor Freeway" type in Waze...

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:35 am
by AndyPoms
kentsmith9 wrote:
AndyPoms wrote:Waze has stated that they are working on ways to support Ferry (Fairy) properly. I suggest waiting to write this page until their system comes out.

Also, I've seen serious problems when a Ferry is mapped here in CT - which is why none of ours are mapped at this time.

There are GPS traces that run across Long Island Sound and they get REALLY wide in the middle (just about 5000 meters wide = ~3 miles). I don't think Waze will snap users to that.
Sounds like you saw problems. Can you give a quick summary of the issues for those who may not have seen the threads, or point to the main forum entry that discussed the problems you saw?
It's happened several times - and each time it was shortly after someone added a Ferry route across Long Island Sound (New London, CT <-> Orient Point, NY; Bridgeport, CT <-> Port Jefferson, NY). I'll give one detailed example, but the same general concept happened each time.
  1. Start trip in Hartford, CT (roughly the middle of the state)
  2. Set a route to a destination in New London, CT (on the other side of town from the Ferry Terminal)
  3. Get a REALLY long ETA
  4. Look at suggested route - find that is was routing me
    1. From Hartford to New London
    2. to get on the Ferry to go to New York
    3. Drive a small loop around Orient Point, NY
    4. Get back on the Ferry and go back to New London
    5. Then proceed to the correct destination.
  5. Cancel route, and re-do ensuring that it didn't select the ferry this time.

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:53 am
by AndyPoms
mrgrumpy wrote:
Timbones wrote:The examples I've posted seem to work just fine using service roads.
Yes, they do. Don't like the idea of using the same road type as Tim says.

I also don't really see the point of mapping the cross-channel ferries other than to 'see' where the ferries go to. I wouldn't use Waze to, necessarily, choose my crossing point.
The Service Road type is supposed to be going away (converted to the Street type). AND Waze has said they are working to support Ferry Routes - I think we need to wait to see what they come up with, especially since if they add a road type called "Ferry", this entire conversation is moot.

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:08 pm
by AndyPoms
dude463 wrote:Is the Ferry road type working?
Yes.
dude463 wrote:If so, is there any special functionality to it vs other road types?
Not yet, but we have asked for an "Avoid Ferry" option (like "Avoid Freeway").

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:50 pm
by AndyPoms
dude463 wrote:Then should we start using the Ferry road type? Currently we don't in Washington state and crossing times are reported by Waze as 10 minutes when it's closer to an hour in reality, and that's if you showed up just before a ferry started to load. Wait times to even get onto a ferry are up to 2 hours on busy days.
Talk with your local editors about making changes like this.

I doubt that changing the road type will effect the timing.

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:24 am
by aspyhackr
dude463 wrote:to ride across an hour trip that Waze thinks takes 10 minutes, only to find they now have a longer journey than if they just drove south (or vice versa).
This is the exact opposite experience that we have here at the Jamestown/Surry Ferry in Virginia. We had a problem where the ferry road type became unroutable, and we switched to a minor highway. The estimated time across went from 30 minutes using the ferry road type to 2 minutes. Then we started getting "Missing bridge" URs because people were getting a wrong ETA, and after about a week, we tried switching it back. It worked, and we haven't gotten another UR about that route till last week when the road type became unroutable again. (It appears to be working again.)

I think the main point is being missed in this thread, there needs to be a distinction in this thread between a ferry that is always running, albeit at a reduced capacity (once an hour at night) like the
Jamestown ferry, and a tourist ferry that completely stops operation after a certain point in the night, or is a seasonal thing like the Sunny Bank Ferry.

Re: Ferry Mapping page

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:50 am
by Black-Voyager
I was recently informed that road type Ferry is treated the same as Freeway and Major Highway.