Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

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Re: Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:24 pm

Because there is no way to define an HOV vehicle to the app, we currently continue to disable routing automatically onto HOV lanes. Time-based restrictions can be done, such as the reversible lanes, but if those also carry HOV-type restrictions, then the ramps should still be PLot.

All carpool and similar lanes should be set up properly with restrictions so that when the day comes, we have them ready to go, but until then, we've decided to prevent automatic routing onto them because you then cannot control access.

While the wiki page is a bit outdated, the main reason to answer "why?" is still very valid:
Wiki wrote:... Waze does not support the requirements of routing over these types of lanes...


CBenson wrote:I'm a bit leery about stating 1) that parking lots have a penalty for routing onto them ...

The penalty is for routing off a parking lot segment onto a different segment type.
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Re: Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:27 pm

CBenson wrote:There are plenty of times where the lanes are available to "private vehicles." If you map them as parking lot roads, waze will not use the lanes during the times that they are available to everyone. If you map them with time based vehicle restrictions, waze will use the HOV lanes during the times that they are available to everyone.

This is all correct. If any separately-mapped HOV lanes are available to all vehicle traffic, then it can be fully open and available and the ramps should be converted. Segment restrictions need to be in place for any time that the segment is not open to everyone.

Keep in mind that depending on the specific situation and route the HOV lane differs from non-HOV, that even with restrictions in place, Waze may choose to route on them in spite of the restriction. (nhanway, the recent full closure of I-84 E proved that even with 20+ segments of I-84 E closed to routing in Waze, that I-84 remained the preferred route from Portland to Boise. It was quite disappointing.)
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Re: Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:29 pm

Let's look at the first one:
nhanway wrote:Now I have set the restrictions to look like this:
P-Link
Image

Based on that screenshot, for the westbound:
1. Saturday and Sunday, no vehicles are allowed all day
2. Monday-Friday, no vehicles are allowed 12:30pm to 1am
3. Monday-Friday, only HOV-2 and HOV-3 are allowed 1am to 12:30pm.

My take on this is that unless you are designated HOV-2 or HOV-3 (feature not implemented nor available), then you are you not ever allowed to route onto that segment in that direction. Is that correct and your understanding?

You are correct, restrictions ARE difficult to explain and implement properly, especially when what we get from city/state authorities are usually allowed times, and we have to invert that into restricted times and restricted vehicle.
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Re: Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby CBenson » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:22 pm

My understanding is that section of the wiki was written before the time based/vehicle type restrictions were available in WME. I believe that there has been some reluctance to change the guidance regarding vehicle type restrictions (like HOV restrictions) before the feature is enabled in the client and we find out the full nuances of the implementation. That being said, I believe, at the very least, time-based HOV restriction should be mapped using restrictions rather than parking lot roads as then at least the time part of the restriction will be reflected in the routing.

I'm a bit leery about stating 1) that parking lots have a penalty for routing onto them but still will in some cases and then 2) that waze will never route onto HOV lanes with every user set as a private vehicle. I'm not sure how waze has this set up, so I'm not sure private vehicles on HOV roads isn't just a penalty like parking lot roads.

I'm also not sure whether its better to put the restriction on the road itself or on the ramps. In particular I'm thinking about the HOT lanes where you can use the lanes if you are either HOV compliant or pay the toll. It does not seem like there will be a way to mark segment to allow toll users and HOV vehicles. In other words if the road is set to toll and HOV-2 it will exclude both private vehicles and those that are avoiding tolls. The only way I see to address this problem is to have both a toll segment and an HOV segment. It seems it would be better to have these double segments only for the entrance ramps rather than have an entire duplicated roadway for toll users and HOV users. If we are going to place some HOV restrictions only for the entrance ramps, it may be best just to do all HOV restrictions at the entrance ramps.
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Re: Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby CBenson » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:41 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Time-based restrictions can be done, such as the reversible lanes, but if those also carry HOV-type restrictions, then the ramps should still be PLot.

I disagree or maybe I'm just not making myself clear.

Take the HOV reversible lanes on I-395/I-95 in Virginia into Washington, DC. The restrictions are as follows:

Weekdays
6:00-9:00 a.m. HOV-3 northbound
9:00-11:00 a.m. northbound, no HOV restriction
11:00 a.m.-1:00 p.m closed while lanes are reversed
1 p.m-3:30 p.m. southbound, no HOV restriction
3:30-6:00 p.m. HOV-3 southbound
6:00-12:00 midnight southbound, no HOV restriction
12:00 midnight -2:00 a.m. closed while lanes are reversed
2:00 a.m.-6:00 a.m. northbound, no HOV restriction

Weekends
6:00 p.m. Fri.-2 p.m. Sat. southbound, no HOV restriction
2:00-4:00 p.m. Sat. closed while lanes are reversed
4:00 p.m. Sat.-6 a.m. Mon. northbound, no HOV restriction

There are plenty of times where the lanes are available to "private vehicles." If you map them as parking lot roads, waze will not use the lanes during the times that they are available to everyone. If you map them with time based vehicle restrictions, waze will use the HOV lanes during the times that they are available to everyone.
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Re: Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:35 pm

The I-680 Sunol/Milpitas HOV lane has been working for the last year set up using Plot entrances. I actually use the lane with my electric vehicle and it has NEVER actually routed me into that lane. The only time I can get it to think I am in the lane is if I start a route while in the lane. Otherwise the GPS resolution assumes I am always in the lane adjacent to the freeway. To be honest I would love for it to realize I have jumped in the lane so it would then give me better ETA data.

Once Waze GPS determines I am in the lane (forced new route guidance), then I keeps me in the lane until I need to use one of the exits or clear through to the end of the lane.

I hesitate to make any changes to include the new Time Restrictions until we know the bugs are worked out. I would rather the system prevent routing into these lanes and not give me a false sense of improved timing.
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Re: Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:55 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:(nhanway, the recent full closure of I-84 E proved that even with 20+ segments of I-84 E closed to routing in Waze, that I-84 remained the preferred route from Portland to Boise. It was quite disappointing.)

Exactly why I propose not touching anything currently working that requires the Time Restriction feature, until it works properly!
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Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby nhanway » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:45 pm

I was looking over Carpool, HOV, Transit Lanes and noticed that we are suppose to map express lanes that are HOV-2 or HOV-3 with entrance ramps as parking lot. Why? Parking lots road types have a penalty for routing onto them but still will in some cases.

I think we should have normal ramps. Then restrict the road that has restrictions. The restrictions set with time based restrictions in WME.

This way Waze will never route onto them because every user is currently set as a Private Vehicle.

I have set the express lanes in washington to do the above and have experienced no Automatic Reports or UR's.

Let me know what you think.
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Re: Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby nhanway » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:17 pm

So let me try to understand all this information.

When there is a reversible lane, I-90 Express Lanes in seattle for example. Time restrictions can be set to allow W direction in the Morning and E direction at in the afternoon. But there are sections of I-90 Express lanes that are Carpool (HOV-2 and HOV-3) and sections that are open to any vehicle. Heres the map:
I-90 express lane map.gif
I-90 Express Lanes Map
I-90 express lane map.gif (20.18 KiB) Viewed 296 times

Now I have set the restrictions to look like this:
P-Link
Screen Shot 2014-02-19 at 1.50.04 PM.png
I-90 Express Lanes W
Screen Shot 2014-02-19 at 1.50.04 PM.png (220.21 KiB) Viewed 296 times

Screen Shot 2014-02-19 at 1.50.22 PM.png
I-90 Express Lanes E
Screen Shot 2014-02-19 at 1.50.22 PM.png (238.35 KiB) Viewed 296 times


But AlanOfTheBurg, are you saying that even though I-90 Express Lanes are set to only allow HOV-2 and HOV-3, Waze might still direct "private vehicles" on the Express Lanes.

I know that the previous standard was to have ramps set to Plot roads. This way you can still drive the roads but waze wont direct you onto them. I believe what I have done to I-90 will accomplish the same thing. But also allow Private vehicle onto the parts where they are allowed. :)


Im finding this really hard and complicating to explain/understand. I hope i'm making sense.
This just is proof that the Wiki should probably be updated to make this more clear.
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Re: Carpool, HOV, and transit lanes Update

Postby nhanway » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:21 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:1. Saturday and Sunday, no vehicles are allowed all day
2. Monday-Friday, no vehicles are allowed 12:30pm to 1am
3. Monday-Friday, only HOV-2 and HOV-3 are allowed 1am to 12:30pm.

Yup that correct.

-West is closed all weekend.
open 1am-12:30pm Mon-friday.
But for that particular segment when they are open its restricted to HOV only. Therefor I added the restriction from 1:00-12:30 allowing only HOV.

Hopefully this will allow routing in the areas where anyone (HOV or not) can drive. And totally restrict the parts that are HOV only.
And then when waze adds support for selecting what type vehicle you are driving then its all set ready to go.

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:My take on this is that unless you are designated HOV-2 or HOV-3 (feature not implemented nor available), then you are you not ever allowed to route onto that segment in that direction. Is that correct and your understanding?


Yes. Except I excluded the restriction used above (1:00-12:30 allowing only HOV) on the parts that are not HOV only.
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