[Page Update] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:57 pm

CBenson wrote:So should we simply delete the Complex/Distributor Collector section as being rendered obsolete by the big detour prevention mechanism?

I am in agreement the detour prevention mechanism should be the control point and not a hack to stop the straight through ramp to ramp. If the penalty is not enough, then Waze needs to increase the penalty set for those routes. In the 5km issue, that condition may be rare enough to not have the issue be common enough to worry about.

Therefore we no longer need that guidance in the Wiki. Maybe we convert it to note this was an older condition necessary before detour avoidance, so you will likely see this in the maps and it should be set free. Call a Champ. 8-)

CBenson wrote:I'm not sure what to do with the "bottom" cloverleaf ramp setup. It seems to me to be an unnecessary alternative where a single recommended method would be better for consistencies sake. However, I remember there being some editors that preferred this option, but I can't remember why.

We should remove the note that one is better than the other. Show both as possible and legitimate.

The notes on not positioning the junction point being directly below the overpass and setting the elevation are points we should collect together on drawing ramps and add any other points on drawing ramps as well. Then we can put a Wikilink to that guidance in each of the interchange drawing sections.

CBenson wrote:Should we try to get Weeezer's input? I'm hoping that springtime is treating him better than the winter did.

We can create a subpage as a revision of the page as our proposal and wait until we hear from him before going forward.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:29 am

I agree that the "Complex Collector/Distributor" section should be removed outright, along with the second image (the recommendation) for "Collector/Distributor Cloverleaf".

I also believe that the "bottom" alternative for the cloverleaf should be removed. Ramps should begin/end within a few yards of the last point where one might legally exit/enter the roadway. I don't believe any DOT would place an entrance and exit ramp that close together in reality. I don't see any convincing reasons to deviate from reality as it is applied to every other ramp.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:33 am

I do think we can just have at least the 5 m distance between the entrance and exit ramps, but in case you don't believe our road development experts could design off and on ramps on top of each other, try driving this interchange in San Jose area. The street view shows you how little you actually have to accelerate up to speed while cars are exiting from the active freeway lane. :roll:
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:50 pm

I've started work on this page as a subpage of the JSG.

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/User:Sketch/Interchange

It could alternately be named "Interchanges" or "Interchange Style Guide", but "Interchange" makes it easier to [[link]] where relevant.

What I've done so far: (1) split the pages, (2) rewrite the introductory text, (3) change and regroup the headings.

What I plan to do: (1) remove the sections/guidance I spoke of above, (2) rewrite a lot of the text, (3) add guidance on where to put the ramp junction on the freeway/highway, including a screenshot with an aerial... and probably more.

I also created a JSG in my user space to carry out the related changes to that. I removed the content which was copied over to the Interchange article. Future, I intend to split off the at-grade intersection rules into a separate article, "Intersection(s)".

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/User:Sketch/ ... _and_ramps
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby CBenson » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:15 pm

If you are planning on revising the text regarding Exits, I would like some confirmation on some of the Exit geometry statements.

"The entering segment and one exiting segment must be one of the three Highway/Freeway types."
I don't believe that it is a requirement for "one exiting segment" to "be one of the three Highway/Freeway types" to get an exit instruction. In any event, this in directly contradictory with the description of using ramps for wayfinders, which states that if both exiting segments are ramp type you get a keep left and exit right.

"The Highway/Freeway exiting segment must have close to a zero degree departure angle from the entering segment."
I don't believe that this is requirement. First, as noted above, you don't even need a "Highway/Freeway" exiting segment. Second, I believe that you will get the exit right instruction as long as the ramp is not the best continuation. That only means there has to be another segment with a departure angle of less than 45 degrees.

"The other exiting segment must be of the type Ramp"
This is also not true. Exiting to a primary street or street segment will also give an exit instruction.

"The Ramp exiting segment must have a departure angle of between 20 and 30 degrees from the entering segment."
This is not true either. Any angle less than 45 degrees will work. This includes zero degrees. Although, the exit instruction is not given if the ramp segment overlaps with other exiting segment (in other words, both exiting segments can't be zero degrees).

"When those conditions are met, the navigation will present an "Exit Right/Left" instruction when the ramp is to be used . . ."
You only get an "Exit Right" in right-side traffic jurisdictions and an "Exit Left" in left-side traffic jurisdictions.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:25 pm

CBenson wrote:If you are planning on revising the text regarding Exits, I would like some confirmation on some of the Exit geometry statements.

"The entering segment and one exiting segment must be one of the three Highway/Freeway types."
I don't believe that it is a requirement for "one exiting segment" to "be one of the three Highway/Freeway types" to get an exit instruction. In any event, this in directly contradictory with the description of using ramps for wayfinders, which states that if both exiting segments are ramp type you get a keep left and exit right.

"The other exiting segment must be of the type Ramp"
This is also not true. Exiting to a primary street or street segment will also give an exit instruction.

Correct. To get an "exit" instruction, the previous segment must be a highway/freeway type, and the "exiting segment" must be (1) to the right and (2) either ramp type or {...}.

{...}: I can't remember if it has to be primary street/street, or if it just has to be a lower type than the previous segment. In other words, does MH --(25°)--> mH give "exit" or "stay"? I feel like this used to be in the Wiki but it wasn't explicit in the relevant article.

"The Highway/Freeway exiting segment must have close to a zero degree departure angle from the entering segment."
I don't believe that this is requirement. First, as noted above, you don't even need a "Highway/Freeway" exiting segment. Second, I believe that you will get the exit right instruction as long as the ramp is not the best continuation. That only means there has to be another segment with a departure angle of less than 45 degrees.

"The Ramp exiting segment must have a departure angle of between 20 and 30 degrees from the entering segment."
This is not true either. Any angle less than 45 degrees will work. This includes zero degrees. Although, the exit instruction is not given if the ramp segment overlaps with other exiting segment (in other words, both exiting segments can't be zero degrees).

Correct. I would want to change this anyway to recommend something close to a 20° angle, but also to note that anything between 1° and 44° should work.

"When those conditions are met, the navigation will present an "Exit Right/Left" instruction when the ramp is to be used . . ."
You only get an "Exit Right" in right-side traffic jurisdictions and an "Exit Left" in left-side traffic jurisdictions.

Correct.

These are primarily the types of edits I am intending to make.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby CBenson » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:53 pm

sketch wrote:Correct. To get an "exit" instruction, the previous segment must be a highway/freeway type, and the "exiting segment" must be (1) to the right and (2) either ramp type or {...}.

{...}: I can't remember if it has to be primary street/street, or if it just has to be a lower type than the previous segment. In other words, does MH --(25°)--> mH give "exit" or "stay"? I feel like this used to be in the Wiki but it wasn't explicit in the relevant article.

I'm fairly certain that it's "primary street/street." I believe that F--(25°)-->MH, F--(25°)-->mH, MH--(25°)-->mH all give stay instructions. I found some old discussions with Alan about this, but all the example links are the old style and when I could find the intersection, the road types had been edited. However, I believe that this is consistent with what Dror originally posted here.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:21 am

sketch, let's also sync up on some other updates I am preparing for JSG. I am moving parts of JSG to their own subsections similar to how the Interchange guide is set up. We can easily merge your and my changes to the JSG as long as we don't hit the same sections.

I started the thread I think you and I discussed a month ago to focus on JSG changes.

I will like this thread to it now.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby Daknife » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:18 am

Btw not sure where it should be placed, but I'm thinking with interchanges. It would be adviseable to add Diverging Diamond Interchanges to the selection. These are not difficult to map correctly but can be confusing to draw in if the editor doesn't fully understand how they work. I can provide a links to a couple such interchanges to use as examples.

1st: A good overhead view one where the DDI is on top. American Fork DDI
2nd: A more compact one fit in under an existing highway overpass. Lehi DDI

I don't know about other states but Utah's DOT is in love with these, and rightfully so. They are very efficient and safe, even better than SPUI's because nobody turns across the flow of traffic. They look confusing but are a breeze to drive and they handle large volumes of traffic very easily. We have five in the state currently and several more already on the way.

Plus feel free to ID me as an expert, I've mapped in every DDI in the state to date. And am always willing to help someone map one in, or do it for them.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:41 am

That's a hell of an interchange design. I will include it, thanks!
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