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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:47 pm

Indeed, although "J-turn" applies only to RCUTs and not MUTIs.

FWIW, Wikipedia uses "Superstreet" for the RCUT page name, and "Michigan left" for the MUTI page name. I really wouldn't mind using both of those here... I had no trouble referring to Michigan lefts as such years before I ever went to Michigan. The abbreviations seem a little hypertechnical.

Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:00 pm

sketch wrote:Indeed, although "J-turn" applies only to RCUTs and not MUTIs.

FWIW, Wikipedia uses "Superstreet" for the RCUT page name, and "Michigan left" for the MUTI page name. I really wouldn't mind using both of those here... I had no trouble referring to Michigan lefts as such years before I ever went to Michigan. The abbreviations seem a little hypertechnical.

Normally the Wikipedia pages use the technical name for an item and then on the page they say "also known as" and add the others. All the names can redirect to the page [[Median U-turn intersection]].

I believe we have the following choices:
  • [[Median U-turn intersection (MUTI)]]
  • [[Median U-turn intersection]]
  • [[MUTI]]
  • [[Michigan left]]

I still propose we use [[Median U-turn intersection]] for this page.

Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:25 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:Normally the Wikipedia pages use the technical name for an item and then on the page they say "also known as" and add the others. All the names can redirect to the page [[Median U-turn intersection]].

I believe we have the following choices:
  • [[Median U-turn intersection (MUTI)]]
  • [[Median U-turn intersection]]
  • [[MUTI]]
  • [[Michigan left]]

I still propose we use [[Median U-turn intersection]] for this page.


I'm OK with following many WP MOS-type guidelines, but we always need to bear in mind the different purposes and audiences.

When I first came on board, I had some prior knowledge of mapping (because I'm just crazy), and I still found the Waze wiki unapproachable. I would like to always bear in mind that our first audience is newbie editors, and our second audience is experienced editors who are encountering something they are either have had trouble grasping or unfamiliar with (or need a refresher).

That said, how do you think this should be handled in particular?

Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:47 pm

I personally like Wikipedia's choice of titles for the two articles and think we should follow suit. A note on this and the AGC page saying that Michigan lefts are not just used in Michigan is plenty enough to assuage potential confusion.

We could use "J-turn" instead of "Superstreet" because (1) we're more concerned with the connectors than the street itself and (2) we don't need an article on the (totally badass) driving maneuver with the same name.

I agree with qwaletee, the Wiki should be written in such a way that newbie editors can understand it and aren't scared off by it. "Michigan left" was changed to "MUTI" in the first place by a Michigan-based editor (hey, davielde) in order to make it nationally applicable, but perhaps those who live in Michigan don't realize that "Michigan left" is a common name nationwide too.

Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:49 pm

qwaletee wrote:I'm OK with following many WP MOS-type guidelines, but we always need to bear in mind the different purposes and audiences.

When I first came on board, I had some prior knowledge of mapping (because I'm just crazy), and I still found the Waze wiki unapproachable. I would like to always bear in mind that our first audience is newbie editors, and our second audience is experienced editors who are encountering something they are either have had trouble grasping or unfamiliar with (or need a refresher).

You are absolutely correct. We have not spent much time with the basic pages. I only recently started working on a replacement for the opening USA page that has not been touched in two years. Do you want to help me work on it? I forgot many of the frustrations when I first started. Maybe you can help me remember them?

For this page I am happy to have you also look at the page from the perspective of how new users might see it (not saying you are new now ;) ).

Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:52 pm

sketch wrote:I personally like Wikipedia's choice of titles for the two articles and think we should follow suit. A note on this and the AGC page saying that Michigan lefts are not just used in Michigan is plenty enough to assuage potential confusion.

We could use "J-turn" instead of "Superstreet" because (1) we're more concerned with the connectors than the street itself and (2) we don't need an article on the (totally badass) driving maneuver with the same name.

I am open to any consensus of the group. All pages can have redirects from all other names and the other names will be added to the page overviews.

[New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:24 am

sketch wrote:I agree with qwaletee, the Wiki should be written in such a way that newbie editors can understand it and aren't scared off by it. "Michigan left" was changed to "MUTI" in the first place by a Michigan-based editor (hey, davielde) in order to make it nationally applicable, but perhaps those who live in Michigan don't realize that "Michigan left" is a common name nationwide too.

We're too busy enjoying Pure Michigan to really pay attention to outsiders.

MUTI was selected to make it more universal, but it also seemed to make it easier to include all of the variants, many of which had cool names with acronyms too. MUTI was also chosen as the the primary synonym for at least two other reasons:

1) Every word in "Median U-Turn Intersection" stresses what it is. The maneuver occurs at major *intersections* and not just any unsigned crossover, and it involves a split road median.

2) "Michigan Left" is a term that seems to have been coined by a journalist twenty years after it originated, and it still is not found in much MDOT literature. Median U-Turn Crossover and Median U-Turn Intersection is.

If MUTI is too technical, I'm fine with adopting "Michigan Left" or "Michigan Left Turn" as long as we're *certain* that it doesn't cause confusion nationally, and as long as enough emphasis is placed on "intersection" and "median" elsewhere in the article.

Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:15 am

kentsmith9 wrote:
qwaletee wrote:I'm OK with following many WP MOS-type guidelines, but we always need to bear in mind the different purposes and audiences.

When I first came on board, I had some prior knowledge of mapping (because I'm just crazy), and I still found the Waze wiki unapproachable. I would like to always bear in mind that our first audience is newbie editors, and our second audience is experienced editors who are encountering something they are either have had trouble grasping or unfamiliar with (or need a refresher).

You are absolutely correct. We have not spent much time with the basic pages. I only recently started working on a replacement for the opening USA page that has not been touched in two years. Do you want to help me work on it? I forgot many of the frustrations when I first started. Maybe you can help me remember them?

For this page I am happy to have you also look at the page from the perspective of how new users might see it (not saying you are new now ;) ).


Sure, though I may be time limited. Let's break up the task into manageable chunks, and I'll grab a few.

Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:28 am

qwaletee wrote:Sure, though I may be time limited. Let's break up the task into manageable chunks, and I'll grab a few.

I know the feeling. I will send you a PM to some of the pages I am working to update.

Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:14 am

I'll just note, before this discussion I had no idea what a J-turn/Reduced Conflict Intersection (RCI)/Restricted Crossing U-Turn Intersection (RCUT)/Super-Street Median Crossover was called. I have driven them but had never heard them called anything. I had to search for a name before I realized the intersections referred to in the draft as variants were what I was thinking of.

The only term I knew before this discussion was "Michigan Left."
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