[New Page] Median U-turn intersection

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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby sketch » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:32 pm

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This one is rather small, because these are both locally-maintained roads. MDOT's signs (for state highways) are larger.

The reference to the MUTCD is only to say that the second "to" is consistent with the MUTCD's apparent ramp naming standards, for signs like the one here — the exit does not serve US-90 directly, but it does via Deckbar, so the BGS includes "TO". It's not really important.

I want to be clear that the naming standard in that article only necessarily applies to Michigan and should also be used at MUTIs in other places which are signed similarly. The naming standard is not rigid nationally, it should be adapted to the locale. MUTI segments in New Orleans are signed "U turn" because all U turns are signed that way and there's no explanatory BGS/LGS at the segment.

"U turn" is used in the New Orleans area because U turns are signed "U TURN" here. It isn't used in Michigan because U turn segments aren't signed as such here, and from what I can tell "turnaround" is the preferred nomenclature, if any.
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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby davielde » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:57 pm

Here's the link to the section of the Michigan wiki under discussion just so we don't have to go a few pages back on the thread. This is part of the struggle of bringing a localized maneuver to the national level.

We need to use an example that doesn't have the main road name the same as the street that happens to intersect at the Michigan Left. :)

qwaletee wrote:There are no signs there that I can see, so you're not "following the BGS," which is how we usually name ramps. We make exceptions where there are multiple splits or crosses in short succession, and the readouts could become confusing. Here you are using an "implied" secondary name of "to Wilson."

As the wiki states, "proper signage should be in place. Depending on what entity maintains the road, however, the quality of signage will vary". If the state DOT maintains the road, there may be and usually is a "big" green sign. If a city, county or township maintains it though, you'll see a little green sign. In this case, here is the sign for the Michigan Left from Jackson onto Wagner, the street you already passed. It's not a sign for "Jackson Plz" because those continuations are not signed here in Michigan. Only the main cross street for the Michigan Left is. And signage can be a lot worse than this... Anything unsigned though would not meet the criteria and would not be a Michigan Left. Also, when multiple splits or crosses are in succession, they are not Michigan Lefts. Only the signed one for the major intersection would be.
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The page also states that it is against accepted usage of the ramp road type (at least at that time), but it is to hide the instructional name in the app. "to Jackson Rd E / to Wagner Rd S" clutters the map, and anyone seeing it would laugh. Most "ramps" exist to carry instructions. They don't have "street" names themselves.

qwaletee wrote:The chief issue you raise with an unnamed segment here is that it would say "left to SAME ROAD YOU ARE ON," though that could be mitigated by naming the split roadway with E and W qualifiers. Alternatively, the segment could be named U-turn, or a combined segment could be U-turn / Jackson Plz.

By virtue of the turn restriction on the left turn, the current unnamed segment only facilitates travel onto Jackson Plz, not Jackson Rd E to get to Wagner Rd S. The Michigan Left segment is named so that you don't get the left onto the same road you are on though. You get left onto the same road in the opposite direction. Using "U-turn" would also be instructional in that you never see a sign (in Michigan) for a "u-turn". That's because it's a localization issue. Here, a "u-turn" is illegal because it implies you are turning in the middle of a road where there is no median in order to go the opposite direction. A Michigan Left involves a "median u-turn" or "turnaround", but those are also phrases you will never see on a sign here.

EDIT: Actually, u-turns are legal in Michigan in any area where a city, township or village does not adhere to the state's Uniform Traffic Code, but they are so heavily restricted by signage at almost every intersection that everyone here commonly believes they are illegal.
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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby MeridianHills » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:40 am

davielde wrote:
MeridianHills wrote:One thing that could be added into the wiki for the new Median U-Turn Intersection
https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-86.06 ... 01&env=usa
MUTI's where the turn around segments have cross traffic from the left & right.

That may not be a bad idea, particular since there are a number of odd situations that may arise where the Michigan Left instruction does not apply to all traffic crossing the physical segment. In that case, there is sometimes a need for a "logical" separate segment.

Here's a fairly common one where the median crossover serves as the entrance for an intersecting street, where it was important to preserve the turn instruction with the proper street name, and I've come across two or three other things similar to it.

To eliminate as much confusion as possible, perhaps we could have a small "guide" with a table and sample pics for different configurations, similar to what is done for the Road Type Guide on the roundabout page.



I would support a new guide, being as the example we both worked on required some ingenuity being as the project was done by the City of Fishers and not INDOT so no real blueprints of the project could be found. We ended up creating this one with a fairly blind eye, and I can definitely see where other editors would be unsure on how to take on projects like that one.
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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby davielde » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:26 pm

I made some substantial edits to the page but left the section on the Michigan wiki alone. The latest working draft can be found in my profile. If there is anything in this thread that I left out, let me know or feel free to edit as needed:
Michigan left

I changed the page under the assumption that we would have a separate page altogether for J-turn/RCUT/Superstreet (as J-turn with numerous redirects). I could probably start working on that this coming week too if everyone is okay with that.
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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:26 am

I really feel that "Michigan Left" is the wrong name for an article name for the US and even for Michigan.

When I helped David do the initial research, I found the MUTI was the most universal term that would encompass the various similar intersections.

However after skimming these documents again, I feel the best term is "Alternative Intersections".

The MUT or MUTI is a type of Alternative Intersection.
The Michigan Ledt is a type of MUTI.
While other intesections may also be MUTIs they are a subset of Alternative Intersections.

Due to the specific connector naming that sketch has mentioned, a Michigan Left is a specialized MUTI, but not all MUTIs are Michigan Lefts.

While I have no problem with making the Mich Left more prominent within the article, I do not feel it is appropriate as a title.

While Wikipedia prominently describes the Michigan Left, it is not used universally around the US, let alone around the world. The Michigan Left probably has more recognition because it has been around since 1960.

A few links found during the initial research that support MUTI:

Although the FHWA mentions Michigan Lefts, from that point on they refer to the intersections the Median U-Turn Intersections:
[code-"Federal Highway Administraion"]The median U-turn (MUT) intersection, which is also referred to as Michigan lefts, has been used extensively in Michigan. At an MUT intersection, left turns are not allowed at the major intersection.[/code]

Federal Highway Administraion:
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/re ... ety/09057/
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/re ... /index.cfm
http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection ... 0Brief.pdf

Georgia:
http://www.ite.org/Membersonly/annualme ... 2H0303.pdf

Maryland:
http://attap.umd.edu/UAID_ags.php?UAIDType=1&iFeature=8

Missouri:
http://www.hanleyroad.com/where_now/muti.aspx

Canada:
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs ... twoRBAo600\\

Based on the documentation above and from other sites, here how it looks like Michigan Lefts fit into the bigger picture:
2014-04-09_03h20_09.png
(11.37 KiB) Downloaded 1081 times


So even for the article for the Michigan Resource page, I feel we need to indicate this hierarchy.

More research is needed here as this chart is only an example and is hardly comprehensive. I'm out of time tonight, if I am going to ever be ready to fly to Las Vegas very early Friday morning.
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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby sketch » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:10 pm

Okay, I will provisionally cede to the technical names.

I don't want to create an "alternative intersections" page because I don't think it's necessary — MUTIs and RCUTs and Jughandles fit into the AGC page as exceptions to the AGC rules. We could also link to that in a section in the upcoming Intersections subpage of the Junction Style Guide. "Alternative interchanges" are/will be taken care of on the Interchanges subpage of the Junction Style Guide.
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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:48 am

The page or subpage that it will become should be a name that covers everything on the page. If we select "Median U-turn intersections (MUTI)", then we just need to be sure everything on the page is an MUTI. If it contains Michigan lefts, then we can add redirects for that and any other name that might be referenced on the page.

My assumption is that most people will only find this page after linking from the JSG anyway.
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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby CBenson » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:26 am

Super-street/RCUTs should be addressed, so the content should not be exclusively about MUTIs.
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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby sketch » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:45 am

CBenson wrote:Super-street/RCUTs should be addressed, so the content should not be exclusively about MUTIs.

I think the plan was to have a separate page for RCUTs and also one for Jughandles. While it could be logical to put MUTI and RCUT on one page, Jughandles are rather different, so might as well split all 3.


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Re: [New Page] Median U-turn intersection

Postby qwaletee » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:58 am

sketch,

I don't agree with the single-page-per-intersection idea. We don't use it for limited access interchanges -- there's one big page for all the types (diamond, cloverleaf, etc.). Each of the types has a short description and a graphic example. It gets everything tidilly in one place so the editor looking up the information doesn't have to dig three or more pages deep (JSG > ltd access IC > diamond).

You have also proposed to have a direct link on JSG. Again, we don't have diamond or cloverleaf mentioned directly on JSG -- naming every single type would end up being too much. We just have the single mention to see the ltd access IC page (though I think we need to have a para there explaining what a ltd access IC is and perhaps one or two brief examples).

Unless you want to totally rethink JSG and how we structure the information as a whole, please don't do this.
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