[Page Update] Junction Style Guide

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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby qwaletee » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:59 pm

There is still enormous value in having several different pages, besides any type-specific pages. Perhaps that's your intent., and I'm just not following the thread well. Regardless, here are my thoughts:

1) An overview to introduce the subject in a comprehensible manner. No matter how short you make individual interchanges within the guide, it will still be too much to use as a starting guide. It should explain concepts, simple examples, and provide links to further reading.

2) A highway interchange guide, because when an editor is trying to figure out how to do something, it tends to fall into highway/non-highway. The non-highway can be referenced here.

3) The non-highway guide

4) A specialty/rare cases/regional-only guide
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:02 pm

That's basically the idea, except specialty/rare cases will be in the relevant other guides. "Intersections" and "Interchanges" will be the "non-highway" and "highway" guides, respectively.


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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:05 pm

Kent, can you add construction boxes to the JSG main page and the exceptions section of the at-grade connector pages? The outdated data on those pages is causing confusion with editors who see unconventional AGC-ramp usage in places on the map. I don't have time to fiddle with template parameters at the moment.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:51 pm

Templates added. I had them redirect back to this thread for now in case they have questions. If you intended a different forum thread, let me know and I can change it.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby DwarfLord » Mon May 05, 2014 2:34 pm

Is there a wiki that deals with junctions like this one in San Jose?

Screen shot 2014-05-05 at 7.24.51 AM.jpg
N 1st & Tasman, San Jose
(55.84 KiB) Downloaded 908 times

What makes this one interesting is that U-turns are allowed coming down N 1st headed SE and returning up on N 1st headed NW, but not from any other direction (the light rail in the midst of everything just adds flavor).

Some editors recommend bowties, others recommend shortening the cross-section segments to 9m or less for U-turns to be disallowed.

But mostly editors seem to deal with these by adding at-grade connectors for left turns and then setting turn restrictions appropriately. Some connectors are geometrically literal, similar to at-grade connectors for right turns; others are abstract, basically an additional straight cross section. The theory of operation is identical.

If situations like this are covered in a wiki I have missed it, apologies!
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon May 05, 2014 2:45 pm

Isn't it covered under Bowtie Intersection?
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby DwarfLord » Mon May 05, 2014 3:08 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:Isn't it covered under Bowtie Intersection?

Yes and no.

There is a thread here in which jemay and bgodette discuss a "short cross-section" technique that appears to prevent U turns while allowing lefts and at the same time preserving literal appearance more than a bowtie.

There is also a practice, increasingly common, of adding an at-grade connector for left turns in cases like this. In fact, both of the intersections used as examples of the "short cross-section" technique in the aforementioned thread have since been redone with at-grade connectors! (jemay said he spent a great deal of time perfecting the "short cross-section" approach at the Seattle intersection but that effort is gone now).

The bowtie section of the JSG makes no mention of these other approaches, but the at-grade left-turn connector in particular is becoming quite popular. It's not clear if that approach is deprecated or if it's just that nobody had thought of it yet when the JSG wiki was written.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Mon May 05, 2014 3:16 pm

The bowtie section does not adequately explain the purpose of bowties or when to use them.

Which is fine. I friggin' hate bowties.

DwarfLord, do you have any examples of the "at-grade connector" type? Is this the same or different as the type with a diagonal segment or two in the box?
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby DwarfLord » Mon May 05, 2014 3:32 pm

sketch wrote:...any examples of the "at-grade connector" type?

The thread I referred to above provides a couple...

Screen shot 2014-05-05 at 8.24.05 AM.jpg
Garden of the Gods & Northpark, Colorado Springs
(37.83 KiB) Downloaded 922 times


and

Screen shot 2014-05-05 at 8.28.55 AM.jpg
Mercer & Fairview, Seattle
(51.17 KiB) Downloaded 923 times

Perhaps there's a better term for these than "at-grade left-turn connector" but that's the first nomenclature that came to mind. I think it's what you're referring to, diagonal segments.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon May 05, 2014 3:40 pm

Once we get junction boxes, all this goes away.

The short term advantage of Bowties is simplicity with correct turn instructions, which is our primary goal, correct?

On the client map it is hard to tell the road actually is a bowtie. I think only us OCD types notice it is not perfectly matched to the road, but so are a lot of things more obvious than this.
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