[Page Update] Junction Style Guide

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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:05 pm

Kent, can you add construction boxes to the JSG main page and the exceptions section of the at-grade connector pages? The outdated data on those pages is causing confusion with editors who see unconventional AGC-ramp usage in places on the map. I don't have time to fiddle with template parameters at the moment.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Mon May 05, 2014 3:16 pm

The bowtie section does not adequately explain the purpose of bowties or when to use them.

Which is fine. I friggin' hate bowties.

DwarfLord, do you have any examples of the "at-grade connector" type? Is this the same or different as the type with a diagonal segment or two in the box?
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Mon May 05, 2014 5:46 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:Once we get junction boxes, all this goes away.

Indeed. I can't wait.

The short term advantage of Bowties is simplicity with correct turn instructions, which is our primary goal, correct?

The goal is to enable the restriction of U turns, the advantage over a simple box is that U turns are restrictable. If U turns are allowed, the bowtie introduces difficulty that is avoided with a simple box intersection. It's easy to get bowties wrong — the geometry needs to be correct to give the proper instructions, or else you're gonna get a "turn right" when you're supposed to go straight, a "stay left" when you're turning left, and so forth. It's really not all that easy an intersection to edit — it may even be deceptively difficult.

On the client map it is hard to tell the road actually is a bowtie. I think only us OCD types notice it is not perfectly matched to the road, but so are a lot of things more obvious than this.

Maybe on smaller streets, but this cannot be said for the Las Vegas Strip.

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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Fri May 23, 2014 6:57 am

Long-awaited. "Delayed" implies a date has been set and missed.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Fri May 30, 2014 5:10 am

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Junction_Sty ... ersections

I have started work on the "split road intersections" section of the intersections subpage.

Including — making that section at all, basically. Before, the entire section was a guide on bowties, which I believe led to the overuse of the bowtie in certain areas. There was 0 guidance on any other way of representing a split road intersection besides with a bowtie — even when U turns are allowed.

Bowties are never necessary at 3-way intersections, or at 4-way intersections where all U turns are allowed or where restricted lefts would restrict any disallowed U turns anyway. I intend to limit their use to only those situations in which they are necessary — because the bowtie is less intuitive, can increase complexity (where a bowtie would require AGCs to suppress MPs and advance instruction timing), and can cause problems (vis-à-vis turn angles creating unnecessary instructions).

I also intend to offer alternative methods to restrict U turns (including the 'diagonals in the box' method).

I'm also trying to keep in mind what might change when Junction Box is introduced — some of the guidance will, I imagine, remain similar to the guidance as to when to use bowties/alternatives, although it will differ slightly (e.g., no need for a Box when all lefts are restricted or when restricted lefts disallow all U turns anyway; use a Box wherever U turns are allowed).
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Fri May 30, 2014 4:07 pm

The bow tie section is inconsistent because it's largely the old guidance with some sentences removed and a couple added. A work in progress.

I'm not sure if the segment-segment delay function is even active; I heard someone say it isn't actually. But perhaps that's a reason for using Junction Boxes for all split road intersections in the future.


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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Fri May 30, 2014 5:21 pm

CBenson wrote:But we do get routes like this. Waze does in some circumstances calculate that a right followed by u-turn and another right is faster in time (on average) than just going straight.

This is an example of right-U instead of left though, not right-U-right instead of straight.

Right-U-right should be taken care of by existing detour prevention for all but streets and primary streets anyway. I haven't seen an example of that in a while.

Maybe a simple box intersection could commingle the data enough to make a right-U instead of Left happen, but a dedicated left turn lane can be slow enough to make a (pass-thru-then-)U-right instead of Left happen (I have proof!). I imagine a bow tie or diagonal could have the same effect (at least, if the transition times are actually being used). I don't get that U-right anymore though, so maybe small detour is in place?

qwaletee wrote:Next: We're going to deep in the number of headings. We're already at =====, and some of the sections at that level are really subsections (I think) in structure. For example, I would think that U-turns would be a heading that explains the problem and includes subheads for bowtie and bypass connectors (aka, slanty left tpage. a separate urn lanes). Instead, they are forced to be at the same level because we've gone this deep. Some restructuring at the higher levels might be warranted, or a breakout into.

I simply strive to organize the article logically; "avoiding U turns" guidance is only necessary for four-way split road intersections, so it goes there.


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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Sat May 31, 2014 4:29 am

kentsmith9 wrote:Sketch, if you mean the tracking of the traverse time across a segment separately depending on the different S-Out connections, I asked Yigal that specific question because I had seen actual routing examples where I believed that feature was not active. He confirmed that they do track and use that data today for routing time.

Gotcha. That sounds familiar now that I think about it. I believe the assertion that it wasn't active was before the meetup.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:55 am

Diagonal(s) in the box and AGCs. The page is under construction.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:48 am

Right, there's that too. At least, should be. I'm STILL not sure how it works exactly (angles, etc.).


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