[Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Moderator: Unholy

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby HandofMadness » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:52 pm

Any chance of adding the 170° rule on bowties to give a u-turn prompt, along with an example photo? It is already in the Editing QSG (without an example), but I feel should really be included in the JSG.
CM: Thailand CM: USA
[ img ]
HandofMadness
Area Manager
Area Manager
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:44 am
Location: Californialand, USA
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 376 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby top_gun_de » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:00 pm

codgerd wrote:
top_gun_de wrote:For us, that means that we start freewayramps shortly after the beginning of the striped line, and that we start ramps on major highways late if we expect drivers to stop for more than a few seconds. The rest is somewhere in between.


Interesting. So the accepted usage in Germany is to put the junction node at the start of the striped line (with exceptions as described in your post).

We have, therefore, two end-member solutions apparently in common usage:
1. junction node is placed at the beginning of the gore (where the striped line dividing the exit lane from the roadway changes to solid)
2. junction node is placed at the beginning of the exit lane, where the striped line first begins

and we have the current wiki guidance, which is in between these two solutions, although much closer to (1).

kentsmith9 tells me that changes have been proposed for this section of the wiki. Is there any way to view these proposed changes to see the new proposed guidance under consideration?


As I said, there is no simple answer. We only do this on freeways, any other ramps have their nodes further behind.

I listed aspects which are actually partly in a conflict.

I can't speak for other countries, but in Germany, we never have traffic lights or planned stops on Freeways. In Russia, it's different, as I know from experience. These differences show why it's no possible to make global stAndards when there is no global standard for road construction, traffic rules and driver's habits.

Best regards,

Detlev
[ img ]
AM Region Hannover, CM Deutschland (Germany), Coordinator Germany, Global Champ

Wiki Deutschland | Straßen und Orte benennen D | Karte bearbeiten | Editorbedienung
top_gun_de
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9083
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:16 pm
Location: Wunstorf, Germany
Has thanked: 3088 times
Been thanked: 5994 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby codgerd » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:31 pm

top_gun_de wrote:These differences show why it's no possible to make global stAndards when there is no global standard for road construction, traffic rules and driver's habits.


I agree. I think my personal confusion over the issue stems from my lack of understanding of the significance of the global wiki pages. In this particular case, the Junction Style Guide/Interchanges page (which is nominated for Wazopedia Global Wiki) offers a clear, easy-to-understand rule, and our Canada wiki offers no guidance to suggest that our country standards differ from the global wiki's suggestion. Further investigation led me to understand even the Canadian champs differ in their opinions and approach, and freeway ramps across the country vary according to the individual editor's proclivities. We don't appear to have an agreed upon standard, and I can't really find much evidence that the editing community has even had much of a discussion about it. One of our champs mentioned that in closing over 10,000 URs, he's only encountered one or two complaints about the timing of exit ramps, so in the end, maybe this is much ado about nothing, and it really doesn't matter much where you place the junction node, as long as it's more or less right.

Still, though, the wiki offers a crystal clear rule, and I haven't heard from anyone yet that likes or follows this rule closely. Perhaps it doesn't actually represent the 'best' base case guidance that should be offered to editors... hence why I would be interested in knowing what edits have been proposed for this page.

Best regards
codgerd
[ img ]
AM Greater Vancouver, BC
AM Saguenay-Lac St-Jean, QC
codgerd
Area Manager
Area Manager
 
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Has thanked: 218 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby jondrush » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:39 pm

In my experience, having the junction at the mandatory split will yield a voice prompt that is too late. You would have to jerk the steering wheel to get over to the ramp if you waited for it.
Keeping the Waze maps tidy since 2009
jondrush User Page
[ img ]
jondrush
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
 
Posts: 2660
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: South Eastern Pennsylvania, USA
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 536 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:33 pm

In another thread I am proposing that all the recently nominated pages for Wazopedia be copied from any current US- or NA-centric pages and then move the page and its history to a USA subpage for now while we wait on the new Wazopedia servers. This will enable us to continue to update pages that are US-centric without impacting the global pages (which will need to get any country specific content purged).
USA: Now Idaho; previously California (Northern, SF/SJ)

[ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ]
PLEASE READ: Waze Map Editor (Start Here) | Editing Quick-start | Best Practices | Junctions
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5670
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: Boise ID and SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1565 times
Been thanked: 1779 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:37 pm

jondrush wrote:In my experience, having the junction at the mandatory split will yield a voice prompt that is too late. You would have to jerk the steering wheel to get over to the ramp if you waited for it.

I don't think I have the same experience. I get notifications a long distance in advance of the actual junction. Just like a turn at a corner. You get a 1/2 mile warning, then x feet, then y feet, then turn now. I get the same thing on the splits. I am pretty certain that is how we set up all the bay area freeways 3 years ago. I thought that was what we had in the guide for the US, unless I misunderstood back then or it has changed since then.
USA: Now Idaho; previously California (Northern, SF/SJ)

[ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ]
PLEASE READ: Waze Map Editor (Start Here) | Editing Quick-start | Best Practices | Junctions
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5670
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: Boise ID and SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1565 times
Been thanked: 1779 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby Kayos_On_The_Road » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:52 pm

jondrush wrote:In my experience, having the junction at the mandatory split will yield a voice prompt that is too late. You would have to jerk the steering wheel to get over to the ramp if you waited for it.


I think the only time this really happens in the current app versions is if you loose GPS signal. On highways and freeways, you typically get at least two warnings to turn and most of the time you get three. The exceptions is if you only have a short segment to make the next manoeurve in which case you get the first instruction followed by a "then..." instruction.

I believe the junction node where the solid line starts is by far the easiest and most consistent method of editing and should be applied across North America. Some other countries have other editing standards that they have chosen to implement to handle freeway exit ramp locations.

Kayos
Samsung Galaxy S7 (7.0 stock), waze version always latest beta.
GC, CM - Vancouver, BC
Waze Beta Leader (Android)
Canada Wazeopedia
[ img ][ img ]
Kayos_On_The_Road
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5274
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:05 am
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Has thanked: 395 times
Been thanked: 1976 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby codgerd » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:40 pm

Kayos_On_The_Road wrote:I believe the junction node where the solid line starts is by far the easiest and most consistent method of editing and should be applied across North America.


I find this to be a logical, easy, and consistent standard and would be happy to embrace it. It's not, as has been noted, the current wiki guidance. @kentsmith9 indicated there were proposed changes to this part of the Junction Style Guide wiki page. Is there any way to see what these are?
[ img ]
AM Greater Vancouver, BC
AM Saguenay-Lac St-Jean, QC
codgerd
Area Manager
Area Manager
 
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Has thanked: 218 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:07 am

At one time Sketch was doing a bunch of changes to JSG and there were many subpages created with works in progress last year. I lost track of where they went in their progress to get merged back together in a new page.

Is anyone currently spearheading the main JSG?
USA: Now Idaho; previously California (Northern, SF/SJ)

[ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ]
PLEASE READ: Waze Map Editor (Start Here) | Editing Quick-start | Best Practices | Junctions
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5670
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: Boise ID and SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1565 times
Been thanked: 1779 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby top_gun_de » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:45 am

You are discussing a US-specific fork of the page?
[ img ]
AM Region Hannover, CM Deutschland (Germany), Coordinator Germany, Global Champ

Wiki Deutschland | Straßen und Orte benennen D | Karte bearbeiten | Editorbedienung
top_gun_de
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9083
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:16 pm
Location: Wunstorf, Germany
Has thanked: 3088 times
Been thanked: 5994 times

PreviousNext

Return to Wiki Updates and Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users