[Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

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[Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:45 pm

I have rewritten the Parking-Lot Place Area text to focus on principles and to be more appropriate for a global audience. The current text came from the US Landmark wiki and sports a number of US- and landmark-centrisms. The proposed update is here:

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Places#Parking_Lot
<Released 4 April 2014, original draft location removed>
<Released 23 April 2014, second draft location removed>

There are no substantive changes to policy in this text, unless one counts:
  • the explicit support of privately-operated short-term parking;
  • the explicit exclusion of stadium parking; and
  • the suggestion that certain circumstances may warrant Parking-Lot Place Areas for unnamed public parking at transit centers (driven by discussions about European parking needs and practices).

Comments very welcome. If the principles themselves come into question that would be something I don't feel qualified to arbitrate, so I hope I've captured them correctly. Everything else in this proposal flowed from the principles, so if they are not correct it would affect the whole wiki.

(EDIT: Having just realized that airport rental-car returns grandfathered from the previous Landmark document do not satisfy the foundational principles for a Parking Lot, I've updated the draft wiki to say they should be represented with Car Rental Places and not with Parking-Lot Places.)
Last edited by DwarfLord on Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby CBenson » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:49 pm

I guess I'm not sure yet how to handle the public garage in the urban building. In my experience in urban setting, many buildings include a garage that is leased to a company that operates the garage for profit by providing public parking. These garages are open to the public for general purposes. Although they may be filled primarily with those that work in the building or nearby and pay to be able to repeatedly park there, they are frequently also open to daily/hourly parking as well when space is available. These seem to be the type of garage that was not to be landmarked previously. However, under this proposal these would seem to qualify. One thing that has changed significantly is that multiple labels can be applied to a place. Thus, if the building is otherwise marked as a place, it is straight-forward to simply add the parking category as well if there is public garage.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby nzahn1 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:52 pm

So, the community consensus is that named designated parking lots around stadiums, college campuses, and others should NOT be mapped as AREAs. Correct?

After we determine the functionality of POINTs, do we think that might be a way to mark these destinations?
Last edited by nzahn1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:59 pm

CBenson wrote:...many buildings include a garage that is leased to a company that operates the garage for profit by providing public parking. [...] These seem to be the type of garage that was not to be landmarked previously. However, under this proposal these would seem to qualify.

My thinking on this shifted due to Waze's explicit endorsement of landmarking private businesses.

I believe most drivers decide whether to park in municipal or private lots based only on cost. Indeed in some urban neighborhoods there is no municipal parking so it's private or nothing. With the municipal vs. private issue apparently diminishing there seemed no longer any reason to exclude private lots from user consideration.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:09 pm

nzahn1 wrote:So, the community consensus is that named designated parking lots around stadiums, college campuses, and others should NOT be mapped as AREAs.

To clarify, this proposal flows from the principle that the Parking Lot Place Area should be both general-purpose and for the general public. Parking dedicated to a destination does not satisfy the general-purpose principle. If exceptions are made for stadiums, they should be made for campuses, theme parks, and other similar venues with named designated parking, and there's been a lot of resistance to that.

I don't know about the particular case you linked, but if anybody can park there to go anywhere, not just the stadium, without risking being towed, it would satisfy the principles and would be OK.

Now, if I've misunderstood the principles and special-purpose parking -- the kind where you could get towed if you don't use it for its intended purpose -- is OK to mark with the parking-lot type, that's fine too, but somebody will need to codify that principle because it really shakes things up.

(Edit: I definitely like the idea of using a Parking-Lot Place Point to identify parking that does not satisfy the general-purpose and general-public principles.)
Last edited by DwarfLord on Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby CBenson » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:17 pm

DwarfLord wrote:My thinking on this shifted due to Waze's explicit endorsement of landmarking private businesses.


I agree with your logic. But, if we are going to mark every urban pay parking lot as an area place, we are essentially conceding that downtown areas will be completely covered with area places. Such lots aren't reference points for navigation, they are just potential destinations.

I guess the question becomes - are we intending to mark every office building as an area place? If so, then there is certainly no reason not including parking as a category for such a place. On the other hand, if we are marking office buildings primarily as points, except when they are a particularly notable location that would be used for navigational reference such as say the Sears Tower or Rockefeller Center, then it would seem silly to mark the garage underneath as an area place.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:26 pm

CBenson wrote:I agree with your logic. But, if we are going to mark every urban pay parking lot as an area place, we are essentially conceding that downtown areas will be completely covered with area places. Such lots aren't reference points for navigation, they are just potential destinations.

I don't see why every PLot needs to be an Area.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby CBenson » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:33 pm

Then the draft needs be altered to reflect when to use an area and when to use a point, doesn't it?
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby nzahn1 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:34 pm

DwarfLord wrote:(Edit: I definitely like the idea of using a Parking-Lot Place Point to identify parking that does not satisfy the general-purpose and general-public principles.)

My suggestion (pending how POINTs works out) is just that. General-purpose/public parking as AREAs (shows on map). Destination (or special use) parking is a point, so it is searchable. So in my previous example:
Lot C would remain an AREA because it is a pay-to-park lot used on weekdays and weekends. The remainder of the lots would be converted to points, so they could be searched for when navigating to Camden Yards/Oriole Park/Ravens Stadium.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:36 pm

CBenson wrote:
DwarfLord wrote:My thinking on this shifted due to Waze's explicit endorsement of landmarking private businesses.


I agree with your logic. But, if we are going to mark every urban pay parking lot as an area place, we are essentially conceding that downtown areas will be completely covered with area places. Such lots aren't reference points for navigation, they are just potential destinations.

I guess the question becomes - are we intending to mark every office building as an area place? If so, then there is certainly no reason not including parking as a category for such a place. On the other hand, if we are marking office buildings primarily as points, except when they are a particularly notable location that would be used for navigational reference such as say the Sears Tower or Rockefeller Center, then it would seem silly to mark the garage underneath as an area place.

This is terrifically thought-provoking. The fundamental question is, how can we help an average driver find a place to park. Since I don't really know how Points present I still have my Area blinders on when trying to answer this question.
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