[Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby nzahn1 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:52 pm

So, the community consensus is that named designated parking lots around stadiums, college campuses, and others should NOT be mapped as AREAs. Correct?

After we determine the functionality of POINTs, do we think that might be a way to mark these destinations?
Last edited by nzahn1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby nzahn1 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:34 pm

DwarfLord wrote:(Edit: I definitely like the idea of using a Parking-Lot Place Point to identify parking that does not satisfy the general-purpose and general-public principles.)

My suggestion (pending how POINTs works out) is just that. General-purpose/public parking as AREAs (shows on map). Destination (or special use) parking is a point, so it is searchable. So in my previous example:
Lot C would remain an AREA because it is a pay-to-park lot used on weekdays and weekends. The remainder of the lots would be converted to points, so they could be searched for when navigating to Camden Yards/Oriole Park/Ravens Stadium.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby nzahn1 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:55 pm

I wish there was a maturation of the |P| symbol layer/function generated from foursquare when arriving at destinations.

It would be nice is we had a general-parking-lot category that would prompt the inclusion of the place in that "|P| layer".
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby nzahn1 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:10 pm

Is this guidance live? Should I be switching my dedicated stadium lots to Point Places now?
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:17 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
CBenson wrote:I agree with your logic. But, if we are going to mark every urban pay parking lot as an area place, we are essentially conceding that downtown areas will be completely covered with area places. Such lots aren't reference points for navigation, they are just potential destinations.

I don't see why every PLot needs to be an Area.


Agreed.

Perhaps guidance should be that if a parking lot is inside a structure that primarily has non-PL purposes, it should only be mapped as a point at its one or two primary entrances. If it is open air or has a dedicated parking building, it can be marked as a point if it has one or two primary entrances, or as an area if it is either a prominent "landmark" or has many entrances that would cause clutter if marked individually.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:18 am

DwarfLord wrote:
qwaletee wrote:Perhaps guidance should be that if a parking lot is inside a structure that primarily has non-PL purposes, it should only be mapped as a point at its one or two primary entrances. If it is open air or has a dedicated parking building, it can be marked as a point if it has one or two primary entrances, or as an area if it is either a prominent "landmark" or has many entrances that would cause clutter if marked individually.

I really like the idea of using entrance count as a criterion for area vs. point, combining with the requirement that the entire enclosed area be dedicated to parking.

My initial thought is that even just two entrances would qualify a dedicated parking area for the Area type, but that depends on what happens if one sticks with Place Points instead. Is there leaning towards providing facilities with multiple entrances with a separate Place Point for each entrance? That's a head-scratcher for me due to the editor clutter and maintenance overhead involved.

I would think that multiple entries into a parking facility, at least, should be handled with Parking-Lot Roads and the routing engine combined with a single Point (located slightly interior rather than explicitly favoring one entrance or the other).


That's not a bad idea, and is more or less the way gas stations often work, but it might be problematic for indoor parking lots.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:22 am

You saw it in the create menu. But you've already muscle-memorized U and Y, so you haven't seen it more than 3x :)

Personally, I'm a gearhead, and would have put in POLYGONS and PINS, because, well, words and clarity, but that's not even going to be a skirmish. Or LANDMARKS and POI, since that's what the two types really represent and how they differ. But awkwardness shall live on forever in the accepted terminology.

/soapbox
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:59 pm

DwarfLord,

In this context, area and point clearly are being used as adjectives, but in such a way that they have become proper nouns. Theres long precedent for it. Witness Her Royal Highness Queen such-and-such.

Not that awkward.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:43 pm

I didn't say not awkward. I said not THAT awkward. As additional words get added, it actually twists the language parts again, and gets further into don't-go-there territory.

Parking-Lot Area Place. Let's analyze that. Parking-Lot no matter what goes along with it will be problematic. The dash is archaic. In its origin, parking is an adv modifying the n lot, but it has come to be a compound noun, same as Area Place is POTENTIALLY becoming a compound noun.

OK, so now we have the Paring-Lot archaically-dashed compound-noun, and the newly minted Area Place compound noun, both morphed from a form of noun-as-adjective modifying another noun. We then compound that compounding. So ParkingLot, a noun, becomes and adjective of Area Place, which is a noun, but as a word group, the adj-noun becomes a compound noun itself.

That's all well and good if the phrasing is intuitive to a regular English speaker. We usually don't have to deconstruct the form to figure out what it means. In this case it is so long and made up of some many parts joined and joined again, that the meaning is NOT intuitively obvious.

I'm lobbying for the return of Landmark again. Parking Lot Landmark is at least easy to understand.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:12 am

I thought / think the accepted terminology was / should be "Point Place" and "Area Place", not the other way around. As in, Point and Area are types of Place, the general noun is Place, and so forth. "Place Point" and (especially) "Place Area" seem real awkward to me.
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