[Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby CBenson » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:41 pm

DwarfLord wrote:Since I don't really know how Points present I still have my Area blinders on when trying to answer this question.

Totally agree.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby nzahn1 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:55 pm

I wish there was a maturation of the |P| symbol layer/function generated from foursquare when arriving at destinations.

It would be nice is we had a general-parking-lot category that would prompt the inclusion of the place in that "|P| layer".
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:38 pm

CBenson wrote:Then the draft needs be altered to reflect when to use an area and when to use a point, doesn't it?

I'm not sure of the principle to apply here. Here are two alternatives:

Orientation. Only use the Area type if the Parking Lot is distinctive and significant enough to orient drivers. This eliminates garages whose only expression to the outside world is a half-buried cave entrance, but could get funky at airports where there is parking every which way and it is hard to claim any of it is distinctive. Or...

Dedicated to parking. Only use the Area type if the area to be enclosed is dedicated to parking and nothing else. This is clearer guidance to follow and enforce but perhaps a bit farther from the fundamental goal of orienting drivers while minimizing clutter.

Opinions? Other alternatives?
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby CBenson » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:59 pm

I'm not sure which to choose without knowing the properties of the places. It does seem to me that this guidance could be essentially be applied to all places (or at least those listed as "size dependent" on the places page) not just parking lots.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:17 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
CBenson wrote:I agree with your logic. But, if we are going to mark every urban pay parking lot as an area place, we are essentially conceding that downtown areas will be completely covered with area places. Such lots aren't reference points for navigation, they are just potential destinations.

I don't see why every PLot needs to be an Area.


Agreed.

Perhaps guidance should be that if a parking lot is inside a structure that primarily has non-PL purposes, it should only be mapped as a point at its one or two primary entrances. If it is open air or has a dedicated parking building, it can be marked as a point if it has one or two primary entrances, or as an area if it is either a prominent "landmark" or has many entrances that would cause clutter if marked individually.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:48 pm

qwaletee wrote:Perhaps guidance should be that if a parking lot is inside a structure that primarily has non-PL purposes, it should only be mapped as a point at its one or two primary entrances. If it is open air or has a dedicated parking building, it can be marked as a point if it has one or two primary entrances, or as an area if it is either a prominent "landmark" or has many entrances that would cause clutter if marked individually.

I really like the idea of using entrance count as a criterion for area vs. point, combining with the requirement that the entire enclosed area be dedicated to parking.

My initial thought is that even just two entrances would qualify a dedicated parking area for the Area type, but that depends on what happens if one sticks with Place Points instead. Is there leaning towards providing facilities with multiple entrances with a separate Place Point for each entrance? That's a head-scratcher for me due to the editor clutter and maintenance overhead involved.

I would think that multiple entries into a parking facility, at least, should be handled with Parking-Lot Roads and the routing engine combined with a single Point (located slightly interior rather than explicitly favoring one entrance or the other).
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:18 am

DwarfLord wrote:
qwaletee wrote:Perhaps guidance should be that if a parking lot is inside a structure that primarily has non-PL purposes, it should only be mapped as a point at its one or two primary entrances. If it is open air or has a dedicated parking building, it can be marked as a point if it has one or two primary entrances, or as an area if it is either a prominent "landmark" or has many entrances that would cause clutter if marked individually.

I really like the idea of using entrance count as a criterion for area vs. point, combining with the requirement that the entire enclosed area be dedicated to parking.

My initial thought is that even just two entrances would qualify a dedicated parking area for the Area type, but that depends on what happens if one sticks with Place Points instead. Is there leaning towards providing facilities with multiple entrances with a separate Place Point for each entrance? That's a head-scratcher for me due to the editor clutter and maintenance overhead involved.

I would think that multiple entries into a parking facility, at least, should be handled with Parking-Lot Roads and the routing engine combined with a single Point (located slightly interior rather than explicitly favoring one entrance or the other).


That's not a bad idea, and is more or less the way gas stations often work, but it might be problematic for indoor parking lots.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:39 am

I've updated the draft page to add a "distinctive and significant" principle that I interpret as limiting use to structures fully dedicated to parking (am holding off on the entrance count criterion).

Also adjusted the language in a number of places to accommodate the concept of simply adding "Parking Lot" to the type list of an incorporating Place Area that's already there for other reasons.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:50 am

Lots of good work here DwarfLord.

I only wanted to comment on your proposed title which I assume is currently:

How and When to Mark Parking: The Parking-Lot Place Area

Since pages are found from a search, the more words you use the less likely the Wiki search will lead to it overall. The general Wiki guidelines would say to use a title as succinct as possible, but still differentiate from other pages. So the first question is if this is a subpage of the Place page, or Parking Lot Page.

I propose a sub of the Place page and also have a link from the Parking Lot section/page to here.

Possibly one of these depending on whether the Places page needs to be subsectioned:
* Places/Parking Lot Area
* Places/Area/Parking Lot
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:05 am

kentsmith9 wrote:So the first question is if this is a subpage of the Place page, or Parking Lot Page.

I propose a sub of the Place page and also have a link from the Parking Lot section/page to here.

Possibly one of these depending on whether the Places page needs to be subsectioned:
* Places/Parking Lot Area
* Places/Area/Parking Lot

I'm not married to that title by any means :D As you say, it depends on the context in which the wiki is placed.

Since the WME continues to offer "Parking Lot", as a Place Area, for direct access via the write menu, it seems logical to locate the discussion at a higher level in the wiki structure with links as appropriate. I'm delighted to comply with any way of accomplishing that you suggest, I'm new to wiki structuring.
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