[Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby Timbones » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:48 am

DwarfLord wrote:It suggests to me that, if we don't want drivers to be confused, we mustn't use the Parking Lot type to mark anything that isn't general-purpose parking for the general public.

This is already accepted as best practice, and had been adopted in the guidelines of many countries.

If the radius is too large, then we should ask Waze to reduce it. I'd also like to suggest that the Ps to not appear if the destination is known to have parking, i.e. place has 'Parking for customers' ticked or nav point is on parking lot road.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby Fredo-p » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:51 am

Good lord. That was not how I anticipated parking lots displaying. I was hopping that it would be the letter P, but not floating like that. The same way the cross is shown on live maps over hospitals. UGH.

This is going to be an issue for the "how/when to use parking lot areas" discussion.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:46 am

The new "P" markers appear to be shown within a surprising range. Surprised me anyway. The leftmost "P" marker in the image below is 1.25 km from my position (at the destination)!

I am not sure if we care whether this new "P" marker helps drivers or misleads them. As I've learned over in the Walking Trails thread, there is an apparently widespread (and certainly strongly-held) belief that our job as editors is to add content for our own enjoyment and for all potential uses of Waze. This perspective seems to say that it is not our brief to care about our content's impact on drivers hoping to reach their destinations and beat traffic. My suggestion in that thread to constrain certain content in order to safeguard drivers' experience was met with blistering resistance, including references to book burning and illegitimate authority.

So I don't know anymore if we care, but assuming we do: the Parking-Lot Place will be shown to drivers reaching their destinations over an area of minimum 4.9 sq km or 1.9 sq mi. That is massive! It suggests to me that, if we don't want drivers to be confused, we mustn't use the Parking Lot type to mark anything that isn't general-purpose parking for the general public.

P-markers-in-Santa-Cruz.jpg
"P" markers shown upon reaching destination
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:16 pm

We need to determine where we want the new "P" marker to pop up. If Waze has programmed it to pop up on any nearby Parking Lot category, then ipso facto we must only apply that category to things we want to get a "P" marker.

Personally, as a driver, I would find it confusing to see "P" showing me both parking I could use as well as parking I couldn't use because I'm not attending a given event or theme park or whatever. If that happened often I would soon begin to disregard "P" and it would become a nuisance rather than a feature.

So unless the functionality changes I'd lean against using the Parking Lot category for private/dedicated parking like stadium or permit parking. Not because I don't think they deserve a Place! But simply to prevent the "P" marker from showing up on the app.

If Waze made a WME checkbox for the Parking Lot category to identify whether it should be shown with the new "P" marker, that would be a great solution.

Alternately, we could use another category. Again I'm not saying things like Stadium Lot E shouldn't be mapped at all! I can definitely see the utility. I'm just saying it seems problematic for them to get a "P" marker. So, using another category -- perhaps one associated with the venue, e.g. "Stadium / Arena" would work.

I don't consider that an ideal solution, but Waze may be forcing our hand here.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:51 pm

I'm only pointing out that the place name could be used to help clue-in drivers about how "public" it is. I'm not advocating that every venue get its own separate lot. Clearly, publicly-available parking (including municipal, commuter, and commercial lots) need places, like any other "business." And individual stores will generally have the lot incorporated into the business's place: most businesses have their entrance in the lot.

But that leaves an issue for large complexes where there may be multiple, disjoint lots with separate entrances. Those are difficult or impossible to map in a useful way if we restrict it as you describe.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:41 am

I don't see a real problem. Just include a reference to the controlling venue for each lot. This way, it is crystal clear that the parking lot has restricted usage, and no confusion.

For example, right now MetLife Stadium only has the stadium structure mapped. But we could add all the lots with clear identification: E Lot (MetLife Stadium), F Lot (MetLife Stadium), etc. Or pick some other format, e.g., Stadium Lot E, Stadium Lot F.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:12 pm

That's interesting. I noticed it briefly during a recent trip but hadn't yet pursued understanding the functionality.

This opens another can of worms. We had been cautiously suggesting Parking-Lot Point Places as OK for named but dedicated parking. For example, different sections of a giant parking lot for a theme park or college or sports venue.

If each and every nearby parking-lot place now displays with a "P" marker, then driving around the hypothetical theme-park lot with different sections marked, one would see an abundance of "P" markers. Meanwhile, visitors to neighboring destinations may see those "P" markers too, even though they are dedicated to patrons only. Those visitors would not be able to determine from Waze that the "P" markers do not mark parking they can legally use; at least not without some guesswork.

So, does this mean that even Parking-Lot Point Places must now be held to the full "general purpose for the general public" standard? If so, what do we do for all the editors who enjoy marking different sections of private parking lots?

And does it mean we should stop using the Parking-Lot Area Place altogether and only use Point Places? Probably not, but should the constraints on the Parking-Lot Area Place be more stringent now that the Point Place has display functionality?
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby nzahn1 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:59 pm

Timbones wrote:
DwarfLord wrote:In recent months I've encountered some compliant public parking lots located underneath freeway viaducts. These are a pain to map in separate chunks to avoid overlapping the freeway, and not accurate to do so either. Is it time to remove the prohibition against mapping Parking-Lot Area Places over roads bearing through traffic?

Perhaps a point place would be more appropriate for these, given that areas have no special properties, and won't be visible on the map (except for maybe the label)?

I agree. Especially since the public version of the apps now flag nearby Parking Lot places (both point and area) when approaching the destination.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby sketch » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:52 pm

Well, considering they don't affect routing or anything, there's no problem using an area for them.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby Timbones » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:52 pm

DwarfLord wrote:In recent months I've encountered some compliant public parking lots located underneath freeway viaducts. These are a pain to map in separate chunks to avoid overlapping the freeway, and not accurate to do so either. Is it time to remove the prohibition against mapping Parking-Lot Area Places over roads bearing through traffic?

Perhaps a point place would be more appropriate for these, given that areas have no special properties, and won't be visible on the map (except for maybe the label)?
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