[Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:05 pm

DwarfLord wrote:Since the WME continues to offer "Parking Lot", as a Place Area, for direct access via the write menu, it seems logical to locate the discussion at a higher level in the wiki structure with links as appropriate. I'm delighted to comply with any way of accomplishing that you suggest, I'm new to wiki structuring.

The actual structure is more about association so when you are on a page you can see the parent pages like [[Places/Areas/Parking Lot]]. That tells you this parking lot information is bound under Areas under Places. Then we also have links from other related pages, and we create redirects from other descriptions and terms.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:27 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:The actual structure is more about association so when you are on a page you can see the parent pages like [[Places/Areas/Parking Lot]]. That tells you this parking lot information is bound under Areas under Places.

Ah, I think I get it, since the reader can see the parent pages there is less need for an exhaustively descriptive title.

(Nomenclature quandary...the field into which we put "Parking Lot", "Shopping Center", "Swimming Pool" etc. is called out in WME as "Type". However the initial Places wiki calls it "Category" and uses the word "Type" for whether it's an Area or Point. I'll bring this up in the Places wiki thread. Meanwhile in the following I use "Type" according to the WME, not the wiki.)

It seems like we are headed towards most Place Types being either Area or Point, with very few being eligible for both. That would seem to suggest structuring the Places wiki along the lines of Places/<Type> rather than Places/Area/<Type> and Places/Point/<Type>.

For the Parking Lot wiki, we are starting with just Area but I and others have seen a number of opportunities for Point so I wrote in a a stub for that at the end of the wiki. It seems to work; the wiki discusses the primary application of Parking Lot (Area) but can then have a subheading, or perhaps a subsection, treating the secondary application (Point).

I've retitled my draft as simply "Parking Lot", with the first subsection being "Primary Application (Area or Point)" in which it's declared that Area is the primary application of the Parking Lot type. Just a strawman for now.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:54 pm

Seems OK at this point.

The main Places page will likely include all the descriptions of the basic entries with little question or controversy. The areas or points that have more discussion would likely link to a subpage to better explain them. In that case it may be fine to have all sub pages be direct under Places, rather than Places/Area and Places/Point.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:00 pm

Is it time for me to replace the Parking Lot text in the Places wiki with this draft, or shall we let the comment period continue for awhile? I'm fine either way.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm

I am good. Minimally be sure to get Alan's feedback since he started the Places page. I have not followed this thread 100%, but as long as you have addressed the comments so far we are probably OK. Keep the construction template on while we sort through the new feature just in case.

A few things I would address before moving it over so it is part of the original page (see process to move page below):

1. Our style guide follows Wikipedia and we should use sentence caps on page names and sections unless it is a proper noun.

2. In the first section you have "Area." This is probably too vague for the average user.

I created a page you can copy and paste your content. Since this is the initial page creation, there is not a lot of need to keep the history of your modifications. This copy/paste method will create the page as a single entry in the history and then start tracking new changes from there.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:12 am

I thought / think the accepted terminology was / should be "Point Place" and "Area Place", not the other way around. As in, Point and Area are types of Place, the general noun is Place, and so forth. "Place Point" and (especially) "Place Area" seem real awkward to me.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:59 am

sketch wrote:I thought / think the accepted terminology was / should be "Point Place" and "Area Place", not the other way around. As in, Point and Area are types of Place, the general noun is Place, and so forth. "Place Point" and (especially) "Place Area" seem real awkward to me.

I think what happened is I started with Place (Area) and Place (Point). I'm sure I've seen those used somewhere and it made sense to me; to say, for example, Parking-Lot Place (Area) makes it clear we are talking about a Parking-Lot Place of the Area class. It is a Place first, and only then can it be an Area or a Point. Maybe too used to formalized structures I am and it my English affects :geek:

Anyway, after a bit, I decided the parenthesis were unnecessary and there it is.

I'm happy to comply with convention if one is established. Since I was thinking of it as a somewhat formalized specification document rather than plain English it didn't seem awkward to me (and nobody else has mentioned it so far), but I do see your perspective. Is a convention established?
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:22 am

You saw it in the create menu. But you've already muscle-memorized U and Y, so you haven't seen it more than 3x :)

Personally, I'm a gearhead, and would have put in POLYGONS and PINS, because, well, words and clarity, but that's not even going to be a skirmish. Or LANDMARKS and POI, since that's what the two types really represent and how they differ. But awkwardness shall live on forever in the accepted terminology.

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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:59 pm

Well, you wouldn't say Highway Major and Highway Minor, would you? ;)


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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:53 pm

sketch wrote:Well, you wouldn't say Highway Major and Highway Minor, would you? ;)

No :lol: but "major" and "minor" are adjectives. "Area" and "Point" are nouns seldom used as adjectives. You wouldn't say area construction and point destination ;)

Not only that, but Waze has effectively elevated the common nouns "place", "area", and "point" to proper nouns. We're not talking about an area Place, which I think I could eventually get my head around. We're talking about an Area Place, which is awkward in any order. And the various Place types have become proper nouns as well.

In this general atmosphere of proper-noun awkwardness "Place Area" still seems to me to be less awkward than "Area Place" especially when tacked on the end of a type. But honestly I'm not that happy with any of the options.
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