[Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:53 pm

sketch wrote:Well, you wouldn't say Highway Major and Highway Minor, would you? ;)

No :lol: but "major" and "minor" are adjectives. "Area" and "Point" are nouns seldom used as adjectives. You wouldn't say area construction and point destination ;)

Not only that, but Waze has effectively elevated the common nouns "place", "area", and "point" to proper nouns. We're not talking about an area Place, which I think I could eventually get my head around. We're talking about an Area Place, which is awkward in any order. And the various Place types have become proper nouns as well.

In this general atmosphere of proper-noun awkwardness "Place Area" still seems to me to be less awkward than "Area Place" especially when tacked on the end of a type. But honestly I'm not that happy with any of the options.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:28 pm

The unfortunate thing about both sketch's and my perceptions of awkwardness is that they won't go away just because we're told it's not awkward ;)

If there is consensus (I'm not sure 3 of us constitute a quorum), I won't feel bad about changing all references to read "Parking-Lot Area Place" and "Parking-Lot Point Place". What I don't want is to change them back again :shock: so I will leave the comment period open for a bit longer.

If any other readers would like to help us establish a quorum on this issue please weigh in!
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:31 am

qwaletee wrote:Parking-Lot no matter what goes along with it will be problematic. The dash is archaic.

Thanks for the fun discussion of English! And I am with you brother -- regardless of whether we say Parking-Lot Area Place or Parking-Lot Place Area it does not exactly roll off the tongue. Landmarks we hardly knew ye. Oh well.

Regarding archaic hyphens, it's correct that "Parking Lot" all by itself no longer needs a hyphen. However, a "Parking-Lot Place" does warrant the hyphen to ensure that "Parking" modifies "Lot" and not "Place". Just like if you say "5 meter sticks" you would mean quantity (5) of 1 meter long sticks, but if you say "5-meter sticks" you would mean an unknown quantity of 5 meter long sticks.

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:"Area Place" and "Point Place" are already on regular use in the Places wiki page as well as the forum. It is also compact and the least grammatically confusing way to use the terms. So, I suggest not using "Place (point)" or "Place point" or other ways to reference the two types of Places.

Consider it done.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:39 pm

nzahn1 wrote:Is this guidance live? Should I be switching my dedicated stadium lots to Point Places now?

The guidance is "live" in the sense that, last Saturday, I moved it to its new more permanent home here:

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Places#Parking_Lot
<23 April: the guidance is now "live", above link changed.>

I did modify the last paragraph just now explicitly to support conversion of existing but noncompliant named Parking-Lot Places to the Point Place type. If one day the guidance tightens up further they can be deleted, but I don't see why that would be necessary. In the meantime we keep the information on the map without the associated clutter.
Last edited by DwarfLord on Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:27 am

FYI, with Alan's blessing the Parking-Lot wiki text has now replaced that in the primary Places wiki. The previous home(s) for the wiki text are no longer maintained and will go away eventually. I've replaced relevant links I quoted in this thread to point to the Places wiki.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:12 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:More than a couple of screens worth of information can be overwhelming to newer users. It is also harder to edit massive pages, like this one may get over time as we flush out other issues around places.

I can make these changes in the next day or so unless someone as adamantly opposed to it. I hope not because this is the direction we have already decided on JSG for example.

I'm in complete agreement with you. I somehow misunderstood that we wanted the text directly embedded in the Places wiki, and I though I didn't think that was as clean a solution as a link, I didn't want to make a pest of myself. Sorry for the confusion! I've sent you a PM with some details.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:24 am

kentsmith9 wrote:Complete. I guess until we have more detailed notes on other places, we can just have Parking Lots be the only entry. Should we link the table on the Place page to the Parking Lot subpage?

Great job merging the changes back to the subpage!

The idea of links in the table that take you straight to the relevant subpage (if there is one) sounds good to me. Otherwise it would be a two-step process to get there from the table link.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:18 pm

In late September an editor removed a great deal of the Parking-Lot Place article, specifically the list of examples where it was inappropriate. The changes were extensive, but the change most representative of the adjustment was the deletion of this sentence:

Deleted sentence wrote:The Waze map must never show a Parking-Lot Area Place where a naïve driver could risk towing, ticketing, or violating community norms.


I was under the impression that significant changes to the wiki were to be discussed in the appropriate forum before being executed. I would like to understand what was offensive about the deleted material and whether it was intended that Parking-Lot Places be encouraged for broader application throughout the global Waze maps.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:26 pm

Peter provided the European perspective during the writing of the article that I thought I had addressed. I definitely wanted the article to have global applicability and have always welcomed input to accomplish that. I would sure rather understand what exactly is wrong than to contribute an article in good faith and then see a good chunk of it summarily deleted without warning or explanation.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:50 pm

Ummm...there are no sample images in the Parking-Lot wiki article...did you mean to post this in the thread for the top-level Places article? It's definitely worth a mention there.
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