[Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:59 pm

DwarfLord,

In this context, area and point clearly are being used as adjectives, but in such a way that they have become proper nouns. Theres long precedent for it. Witness Her Royal Highness Queen such-and-such.

Not that awkward.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:28 pm

The unfortunate thing about both sketch's and my perceptions of awkwardness is that they won't go away just because we're told it's not awkward ;)

If there is consensus (I'm not sure 3 of us constitute a quorum), I won't feel bad about changing all references to read "Parking-Lot Area Place" and "Parking-Lot Point Place". What I don't want is to change them back again :shock: so I will leave the comment period open for a bit longer.

If any other readers would like to help us establish a quorum on this issue please weigh in!
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby qwaletee » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:43 pm

I didn't say not awkward. I said not THAT awkward. As additional words get added, it actually twists the language parts again, and gets further into don't-go-there territory.

Parking-Lot Area Place. Let's analyze that. Parking-Lot no matter what goes along with it will be problematic. The dash is archaic. In its origin, parking is an adv modifying the n lot, but it has come to be a compound noun, same as Area Place is POTENTIALLY becoming a compound noun.

OK, so now we have the Paring-Lot archaically-dashed compound-noun, and the newly minted Area Place compound noun, both morphed from a form of noun-as-adjective modifying another noun. We then compound that compounding. So ParkingLot, a noun, becomes and adjective of Area Place, which is a noun, but as a word group, the adj-noun becomes a compound noun itself.

That's all well and good if the phrasing is intuitive to a regular English speaker. We usually don't have to deconstruct the form to figure out what it means. In this case it is so long and made up of some many parts joined and joined again, that the meaning is NOT intuitively obvious.

I'm lobbying for the return of Landmark again. Parking Lot Landmark is at least easy to understand.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:46 pm

If most of our Places are one or the other, can we just focus on calling them "Parking Lot Places?" Then in the details we decide if they are points or areas.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:45 am

I'm cool with including this back in the main article. I would like to see the current convention as posted in other places in the wiki, especially in the current Places page, of "Area Place" and "Point Place" updated.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:I would like to see the current convention as posted in other places in the wiki, especially in the current Places page, of "Area Place" and "Point Place" updated.

I am not sure I know what you meant here. Are you referencing following the Wiki Style Guide or something different?
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:16 am

kentsmith9 wrote:
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:I would like to see the current convention as posted in other places in the wiki, especially in the current Places page, of "Area Place" and "Point Place" updated.

I am not sure I know what you meant here. Are you referencing following the Wiki Style Guide or something different?

No. "Area Place" and "Point Place" are already on regular use in the Places wiki page as well as the forum. It is also compact and the least grammatically confusing way to use the terms. So, I suggest not using "Place (point)" or "Place point" or other ways to reference the two types of Places.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:24 am

I thought that's what you meant, but I think you may have meant to say "used here" or "applied here" instead of "updated". I agree, of course.


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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:46 am

sketch wrote:I thought that's what you meant, but I think you may have meant to say "used here" or "applied here" instead of "updated". I agree, of course.

Yes, me typing too fast and used the wrong word.
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Re: [Updated Page Proposal] The Parking-Lot Place Area

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:31 am

qwaletee wrote:Parking-Lot no matter what goes along with it will be problematic. The dash is archaic.

Thanks for the fun discussion of English! And I am with you brother -- regardless of whether we say Parking-Lot Area Place or Parking-Lot Place Area it does not exactly roll off the tongue. Landmarks we hardly knew ye. Oh well.

Regarding archaic hyphens, it's correct that "Parking Lot" all by itself no longer needs a hyphen. However, a "Parking-Lot Place" does warrant the hyphen to ensure that "Parking" modifies "Lot" and not "Place". Just like if you say "5 meter sticks" you would mean quantity (5) of 1 meter long sticks, but if you say "5-meter sticks" you would mean an unknown quantity of 5 meter long sticks.

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:"Area Place" and "Point Place" are already on regular use in the Places wiki page as well as the forum. It is also compact and the least grammatically confusing way to use the terms. So, I suggest not using "Place (point)" or "Place point" or other ways to reference the two types of Places.

Consider it done.
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