Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

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Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby pumrum » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:15 pm

The US Road Types are being overhauled and driveable roads are being discussed in detail here.

I propose that those who wish to engage in a lively discussion on guidance relating to Runways, Taxiways, and other features around airports such as airport parking lots, rental car facilities, taxi staging areas, etc. Some of these topics are covered in other areas such as Parking Lots and Private Roads, but I think Waze would benefit from standardization around airports. The more consistent Waze is around major travel hubs, the better the user experience will be. The product of these discussions could be used to enhance or complement existing wiki pages.

A couple examples to start:

Runways - Naming
I would recommend using the FAA identifier rather than the ICAO identifier for runway markings. I think if you try to standardize on ICAO (KXXX) you will just end up confusing the masses -- most people recognize the FAA identifier. Further, some airfields don't have an ICAO identifier but all airfields have an FAA identifier.
Name each runway using the FAA airport identifier, the word runway, and the runway designations with the lower number first (e.g., "KSMF Runway 16R-34L".)

Change to: (e.g., "SMF Runway 16R-34L".)


Runways - Elevation
I would recommend setting the standard that all runways should be set to elevation = ground (0). In the rare instances where a road crosses under a runway's path, the road should deviate elevation to the negative. In the extremely rare case where a runway and a road intersect, no junction should be formed and the road should deviate elevation to the positive so it appears over the runway. This would make it easy to standardize on 0 for runway elevation, since the vast majority of runways never cross paths with a road.


Taxiways
I would recommend providing guidance that airport taxiways should not be mapped. In many larger airports the taxiways can be quite complex, would appear the same size/color as runways, and would reduce the distinctive appearance of the runways being identified as runways. Google Maps solves this by using a thinner, lighter line for taxiways. Waze should just omit them.


Restricted Access Roads
I would recommend that segments which require SIDA or other TSA, DHS, or airport authority credentials to access should not be mapped in Waze. Some may disagree - but until Waze offers some way to alert the user that their destination may be in a restricted area like google, navigon, garmin, and some others do - I don't think it is safe or prudent to even have the ability to possibly maybe route someone onto airport property.
I would concede that you could map the segments as long as they were never connected to the main driveable network (similar to railroads and walking paths), but we would need a way for WME Validator to flag that. Ideas?


Standardized Airport Feature Naming (Roads, Lots, Places, etc)
bgodette wrote:That discussion will likely lead to standardized naming of important navigational points that aren't normal Places, eg "SFO - Rental Return" "SFO - Cell Waiting" "DIA - Arrivals East" etc.

bgodette brought up a good point here - there could be value in standardizing the naming of some common features at major airports such as cell phone waiting lots, arrivals/departures access, rental car location, etc.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:27 pm

I believe most are already in accord on most of these points. I'm not sure when the latest runway/airport road discussion took place exactly (a few months ago), or where it was, though.

I agree on runways except that there's no reason to include any airport identifier, so "Runway 4R/22L".

I agree on elevation.

I agree on leaving restricted-access roads off the map, and this was a significant part of that former discussion. The community agrees on this, I believe.

As for standard naming, I agree with this as well. I've been doing the same in practice:

MSY - Long Term Parking
MSY - Departures
MSY - Rental Car Return
DTW - McNamara Terminal - International Arrivals
DTW - McNamara Terminal - Departures
DTW - North Terminal - Departures

...and so forth. Should be "[FAA] - {terminal if needed} - [whatever it is]", set using point places.

I think some of this is in the Wiki already, I'm just not sure where. Agreed some of it should be in the Road types article.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby pumrum » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:41 pm

sketch wrote:I agree on runways except that there's no reason to include any airport identifier, so "Runway 4R/22L".

I'm ambivalent on this one. I went with what's on the Revised Road Types (USA) to start, and tweaked it to be FAA instead of ICAO. I do think having the airport code in there could clutter up the map. I can also see very very slight value in having it there if it displays in the app. I do lean towards agreeing with you though - leave the identifier off and just call it "Runway 16-34" or "Runway 16/34" whatever the standard is

sketch wrote:I agree on leaving restricted-access roads off the map, and this was a significant part of that former discussion. The community agrees on this, I believe.

Excellent. Once we have a chance to codify it in the wiki, I will start reaching out to AMs and suggesting they clean up some of the on-airport roads

sketch wrote:I think some of this is in the Wiki already, I'm just not sure where. Agreed some of it should be in the Road types article.

Agreed. When the dust settles from the public roadway changes, we can pick this one up.


I think something that AMs should be doing ASAP is checking their airport Places to make sure the stop point is in the right place now that they're supported. I've run into a couple issues lately where Waze routed me around the back side of a very large airport - of course when I'm late for a flight :oops:
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Re: airport identifiers

Postby dbraughlr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:21 pm

pumrum wrote:You mention FAA identifier but then listed an ICAO identifier. I would recommend using the FAA identifier rather than the ICAO identifier for runway markings. I think if you try to standardize on ICAO (KXXX) you will just end up confusing the masses -- most people recognize the FAA identifier. Further, some airfields don't have an ICAO identifier but all airfields have an FAA identifier.

ICAO and FAA identifiers are not necessarily different by the prefix K (there are airports in AK and HI too).
The identifier recognized most is the IATA identifier. How about using the IATA for airports which have have one and FAA identifier for the rest?
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Re: airport identifiers

Postby pumrum » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:25 pm

dbraughlr wrote:How about using the IATA for airports which have have one and FAA identifier for the rest?

That's pretty much what I was getting at. Where an airport code is required use IATA and fall back on FAA if IATA doesn't exist. I do agree with sketch though that we should probably leave the identifier off of the runway segments
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby Daknife » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:27 pm

I'm opposed to Runways, everytime someone adds a runway to one of my local airports I start seeing a big increase in GPS tracks matching flight paths. Simply if Waze has it people start using it. You don't need runways with or without proper designations as nobody is driving on them. When Waze adds a flight path option then add them and every minute detail a pilot could want. But until then they have no place in an app for ground transportation. The Airports are already marked with areas.

Just my biased opinion.

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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:35 pm

Runways haven't been visible in the client as long as I remember, so I don't know why that would happen unless someone has been adding them as private road or something.

Runways (like railroads) will almost definitely be displayed in the client in the future, but not as, and not similarly to, drivable roads. Staff has already expressed their intent to display all non drivable types in the future. (Look at the live map, they're already there.) Runways make an airport immediately identifiable as an airport.


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Re: runways

Postby dbraughlr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:07 pm

sketch wrote:Runways make an airport immediately identifiable as an airport.

Having the airport identifier in the runway name immediately identifies the airport.
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Re: runways

Postby pumrum » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:15 pm

dbraughlr wrote:Having the airport identifier in the runway name immediately identifies the airport.


That's assuming road names will be displayed on non-driveable segments (have we confirmed this)? That also assumes you would be near an airport, know enough to use it as a reference, but some how not know which one it is and have to look at the IATA identifier just to make sure you're not at the wrong airport ;)
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Re: runways

Postby dbraughlr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:17 pm

daknife wrote:You don't need runways with or without proper designations as nobody is driving on them. When Waze adds a flight path option then add them and every minute detail a pilot could want.


As with walking trails and railroads, I haven't seen a viable solution besides mapping them and locking them. The only way I found to win the war against walking trails was to lock them or disconnect them from the roadway. The same goes for runways, I think. If the runway is mapped and locked, then no one can attach it to a road or pave it during take-off or landing.

This is not for pilots or airport personnel.
Runways are a distinctive landmark. In theory, a safety feature could be built for Waze to warn about proximity to a mapped runway. Runways should be excluded from search results regardless of what they are named.
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