Post by sketch
Runways haven't been visible in the client as long as I remember, so I don't know why that would happen unless someone has been adding them as private road or something.

Runways (like railroads) will almost definitely be displayed in the client in the future, but not as, and not similarly to, drivable roads. Staff has already expressed their intent to display all non drivable types in the future. (Look at the live map, they're already there.) Runways make an airport immediately identifiable as an airport.


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Post by sketch
dbraughlr wrote:
sketch wrote:Runways make an airport immediately identifiable as an airport.
Having the airport identifier in the runway name immediately identifies the airport.
Yes, but the identifier will already be in the Place name, making the name on the runways redundant.

As pumrum said, we don't even know whether names will be displayed on nondrivables at all. The names are not displayed in the live map currently.

If they are, though, I'd rather see "MSY – Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport" on the Area and "Runway 10/28" on the runway. The second (third, fourth...) MSY on the runway, as a display-only feature (if even that), is redundant. You can't turn off the Places layer in the client.
daknife wrote:Areas over the runways/airports take care of the distinctive landmark aspect. Always have.

Tapatalking via my Galaxy S4
A large shaded area does not signify "airport", it signifies "landmark" ("area place"). A large shaded area with runways in it signifies "airport". Anything that makes a Place more immediately identifiable without having to read text is good from a design perspective and from a road safety perspective. That's why parks are green and lakes are blue.

Look at any other GPS map and you'll see a representation of runways (and taxiways!) on the map at the airports.
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Post by sketch
It's the combination of the shaded area and the lines...
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Post by sketch
Sure, so do I. But we should always be editing with the client, not the editor, in mind, since the client is what users see and what matters. In the client, the Area name serves the purpose of airport identification.

If you're in the editor working on an airport, you'll at least have turned the Places layer on to check/add/modify the airport Place.
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Post by sketch
No. Slow it down. Read it again.

You are saying "IATA code on runways is not redundant for me [in the editor] because I edit with Places layer off."

I am saying
  • "Editing rules are not designed to make things look right in the editor. They are designed to make things look and work right in the client. So if runway names even show up at all, including the IATA code on runways would be redundant."
  • "And whatever airport-identifying advantages IATA codes in runway names would have in the editor are basically nil. If you're actually in the editor paying attention to the airport, editing the airport, you will have turned the Places layer on at least once to check that the airport's Area Place is proper and conforming, so you would already be aware of which airport you are working on. So the IATA name there becomes largely redundant also."
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Post by sketch
dbraughlr wrote:That seems lot a lot of assumptions about what I should be doing or why it couldn't possibly be of any use to me. I didn't mean to imply that I was editing an airport. I might be scrolling through looking at URs. I might be editing nearby. It doesn't matter why I am there. I prefer to check an airport by looking at (or clicking on) a runway rather than turning on Places layer, clicking on the area, then turning Places layer off. It is just extremely simple.
What you're missing (or refusing to acknowledge) is that the names' usefulness to you in the editor is beside the point. Yet again, we edit for the client and the navigation server, not for the editor.

Maybe you're hearing me, maybe we're saying the same things, but you're missing the point.
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Post by sketch
dbraughlr wrote:What exactly is effectively different between your statement and mine?
You are stating that we should include the IATA code on runways because it's better for you in the editor.

I am stating that we should not include the IATA code on runways because it is better not to for purposes of the client.

Do you see the difference there?
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Post by sketch
I'm saying it might in the future. We made the same assumption when coming up with the railroad naming rules.
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Post by sketch
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Naming standard of "LR" or "RL"? or lower number first always regardless of L or R? How about runways with no L-R?
Lower number first regardless of LR. That's how I always see them listed. Look at a Wikipedia article about an airport.

IMO "4L/22R" and "4R/22L" looks better and more balanced than "4L/22R" and "22L/4R" anyway.

Pavement markings on perpendicular taxiways order the numbers one way or the other depending on which direction you're facing. Seems paradoxical, but the first number is the azimuth to the right and the second number is the azimuth to the left. So if you're facing north, about to intersect an east-west runway, you'll see "9-27" – 90° (east) to the right, and 270° (west) to the left. Across the runway, facing south, the marking says "27-9".

Point being that it's arbitrary, and that convention seems to put the lower number first when the name is used outside of a particular sort of context.
Also, is there confirmation that runways, like walking trails, definitely DO NOT cause routing problems? Specifically, if a runway is closer to the google search result (because G is still the preferred POI provider) than any other segment, then Waze may try to route as close as it can to that runway.
Yes. They've been there at MSY for almost a year, not causing any problems.
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Post by sketch
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:That's not the problem which some non-driveable segments will cause. It will, with walking trails, for example, see that a walking trail, not connected to any other segment, is closest to the lat/lon of the search result, and then will route you to the spot on the segment closest to that walking trail it can get.
Pretty sure that's only true of non-drivables which are currently visible in the client. Walking trails are displayed in the client; runways are not.
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