Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby qwaletee » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:02 am

DwarfLord, I have to admit to adding a few stairways just for the heck of it. In my defense, there are actually a few officially named stairways in my editing area (steep hill where the through street which was a narrow trail 100+ years ago could not be adapted to a street). I think even a couple of houses on one I've seen.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:27 pm

I believe most are already in accord on most of these points. I'm not sure when the latest runway/airport road discussion took place exactly (a few months ago), or where it was, though.

I agree on runways except that there's no reason to include any airport identifier, so "Runway 4R/22L".

I agree on elevation.

I agree on leaving restricted-access roads off the map, and this was a significant part of that former discussion. The community agrees on this, I believe.

As for standard naming, I agree with this as well. I've been doing the same in practice:

MSY - Long Term Parking
MSY - Departures
MSY - Rental Car Return
DTW - McNamara Terminal - International Arrivals
DTW - McNamara Terminal - Departures
DTW - North Terminal - Departures

...and so forth. Should be "[FAA] - {terminal if needed} - [whatever it is]", set using point places.

I think some of this is in the Wiki already, I'm just not sure where. Agreed some of it should be in the Road types article.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:35 pm

Runways haven't been visible in the client as long as I remember, so I don't know why that would happen unless someone has been adding them as private road or something.

Runways (like railroads) will almost definitely be displayed in the client in the future, but not as, and not similarly to, drivable roads. Staff has already expressed their intent to display all non drivable types in the future. (Look at the live map, they're already there.) Runways make an airport immediately identifiable as an airport.


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Re: runways

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:03 am

dbraughlr wrote:
sketch wrote:Runways make an airport immediately identifiable as an airport.

Having the airport identifier in the runway name immediately identifies the airport.

Yes, but the identifier will already be in the Place name, making the name on the runways redundant.

As pumrum said, we don't even know whether names will be displayed on nondrivables at all. The names are not displayed in the live map currently.

If they are, though, I'd rather see "MSY – Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport" on the Area and "Runway 10/28" on the runway. The second (third, fourth...) MSY on the runway, as a display-only feature (if even that), is redundant. You can't turn off the Places layer in the client.

daknife wrote:Areas over the runways/airports take care of the distinctive landmark aspect. Always have.

Tapatalking via my Galaxy S4

A large shaded area does not signify "airport", it signifies "landmark" ("area place"). A large shaded area with runways in it signifies "airport". Anything that makes a Place more immediately identifiable without having to read text is good from a design perspective and from a road safety perspective. That's why parks are green and lakes are blue.

Look at any other GPS map and you'll see a representation of runways (and taxiways!) on the map at the airports.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:51 am

It's the combination of the shaded area and the lines...
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 am

Sure, so do I. But we should always be editing with the client, not the editor, in mind, since the client is what users see and what matters. In the client, the Area name serves the purpose of airport identification.

If you're in the editor working on an airport, you'll at least have turned the Places layer on to check/add/modify the airport Place[s].
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:45 pm

No. Slow it down. Read it again.

You are saying "IATA code on runways is not redundant for me [in the editor] because I edit with Places layer off."

I am saying
  • "Editing rules are not designed to make things look right in the editor. They are designed to make things look and work right in the client. So if runway names even show up at all, including the IATA code on runways would be redundant."
  • "And whatever airport-identifying advantages IATA codes in runway names would have in the editor are basically nil. If you're actually in the editor paying attention to the airport, editing the airport, you will have turned the Places layer on at least once to check that the airport's Area Place is proper and conforming, so you would already be aware of which airport you are working on. So the IATA name there becomes largely redundant also."
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Re: runways

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:46 pm

dbraughlr wrote:That seems lot a lot of assumptions about what I should be doing or why it couldn't possibly be of any use to me. I didn't mean to imply that I was editing an airport. I might be scrolling through looking at URs. I might be editing nearby. It doesn't matter why I am there. I prefer to check an airport by looking at (or clicking on) a runway rather than turning on Places layer, clicking on the area, then turning Places layer off. It is just extremely simple.

What you're missing (or refusing to acknowledge) is that the names' usefulness to you in the editor is beside the point. Yet again, we edit for the client and the navigation server, not for the editor.

Maybe you're hearing me, maybe we're saying the same things, but you're missing the point.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:34 am

dbraughlr wrote:What exactly is effectively different between your statement and mine?

You are stating that we should include the IATA code on runways because it's better for you in the editor.

I am stating that we should not include the IATA code on runways because it is better not to for purposes of the client.

Do you see the difference there?
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:35 pm

I'm saying it might in the future. We made the same assumption when coming up with the railroad naming rules.
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