Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby qwaletee » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:19 am

They should never see the sign, though. And we're probably getting pedantic.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby DwarfLord » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:32 pm

The argument for the hyphen sounds like fine logic to me.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby voludu2 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:14 pm

So. If we were to follow the typical WME rule of "map what they see on the sign", then we would go with the hyphen.

Since individuals should not be wazing WHILE driving past those particular signs, I don't suggest we put very much more effort into the discussion. If anyone is hearing those runway names in TTS, they are using the app inappropriately or else there is something more important rather wrong with the waze map in that vicinity.

I agree with DwarfLord that "Runway" is the only essential thing.
I propose that, if we have to pick a standard for optional inclusion of runway designation, we go with "how it is painted on the tarmac"

So I would amend my above "/" to "-"
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:38 pm

Indeed. And look up any airport here on the FAA website, you'll see runways listed as "01/19" and "03L/21R".
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby DwarfLord » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:25 pm

Though I hesitate to wade into the slash-vs-hyphen discussion I did check the FAA's Notice To Airmen portal. After entering KSFO for the NOTAM retrieval and clicking "View NOTAMs", up came a list with many entries along the lines of:

!SFO 03/066 (KSFO A0493/15) SFO RWY 10R/28L CLSD 1503172230-1503172330

It would appear that while hyphens are used on the taxiway signs, slashes are used in the reference documentation, at least in the NOTAM documentation.

Since the Waze segment names will not be used for navigation by airmen (let's hope!) but rather just as reference, I'd be inclined to use the reference convention rather than the taxiway-marking convention.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby voludu2 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:56 pm

* If a runway is drawn, it must be named. The name must begin with "Runway"
* The only other thing which may be added to the runway name is the runway designation. This is not required. If it is used, it must be correct.
** Runways have two directions, and a different designation in each direction. The format is: lower-number designation, "/", higher number designation. Examples: "09L/27R", "3G/21G", "07T/25T"
* Example Runway names: "Runway". "Runway 07T/25T".

* Things which MUST NOT be added to the runaway name:
** airport name
** airport code
** ANYTHING wazers are likely to use to search for the airport.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby DwarfLord » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:25 am

voludu2 wrote:Any editor interested in naming runways is probably interested in finding out what they are called...Is "Runway" better than no name at all? Or are both "Runway" and none acceptable?
If there is agreement in that final point, I'll hit the edit link and start typing.

A major rationale for naming railroads as Railroads was that, if and when they display on the app, it must be clear to drivers that they're not roads. Railroads did indeed display on the app for awhile, and just as we both feared and predicted, they looked just like roads during that brief period.

The possibility of confusion between drivable roads and runways seems small, and I certainly wouldn't be as worried about it, but the concern might not be zero. I don't think the wiki should provide the explicit option of leaving runways unnamed, for that reason.

As to what to call them, Waze is always supposed to present information from the perspective of what is most useful to a driver. To be honest, I suspect the simple word "Runway" is going get through to the average driver better than the more elaborate nomenclature from the FAA chart. So I do believe the word "Runway" should be the required minimum default, with the FAA information optional.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby PesachZ » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:03 am

dbraughlr wrote:
voludu2 wrote:Examples which could occur at the same airport include "03L/21R", "03C/21C", "03R/21L"


We use a hyphen, not a slant.
dbraughlr wrote:
tonestertm wrote:...(confirmed with an Air Traffic Controller that slashes are standard naming).


He was mistaken. I have never seen a slash.
The only acceptable form is with a hyphen.

Runway sign

This appears to be correct. This FAA diagram of JFK uses a hypen for all 4 runways. These paintings visible in sat view also use the hyphen.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby dbraughlr » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:19 pm

tonestertm wrote:...(confirmed with an Air Traffic Controller that slashes are standard naming).


He was mistaken. I have never seen a slash.
The only acceptable form is with a hyphen.

Runway sign
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby dbraughlr » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:15 pm

voludu2 wrote:Examples which could occur at the same airport include "03L/21R", "03C/21C", "03R/21L"


We use a hyphen, not a slant.
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