Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

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Re: IATA, ICAO, FAA

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:35 pm

DwarfLord wrote:
Current Road Types (USA) wrote:(the IATA code and FAA code are nearly always identical).

Unfortunately, that really is not accurate and doesn't add any clarity.

When the airport does not have an assigned IATA identifier, the ICAO 4-letter code is used, or absent that, the FAA identifier is used.
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Re: IATA, ICAO, FAA

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:56 pm

dbraughlr wrote:
DwarfLord wrote:
Current Road Types (USA) wrote:(the IATA code and FAA code are nearly always identical).

Unfortunately, that really is not accurate and doesn't add any clarity.

When the airport does not have an assigned IATA identifier, the ICAO 4-letter code is used, or absent that, the FAA identifier is used.

I am not an aviation expert and was just going off the Wikipedia entry. It says "In the United States, the IATA identifier usually equals the FAA identifier, but this is not always the case." Is that wrong?

This is a wiki for the US only. If every airport in the US has an FAA identifier, why bother with IATA or ICAO? Why not just say, use the FAA identifier? Wikipedia says it usually equals the IATA identifier but you say that's not accurate, so I don't know what to recommend for sure, but from a clarity perspective a wiki entry that just says "use the FAA identifier" would be nice and simple and would not force the editor into a decision tree.

But honestly I have no desire to argue for anything other than clarity and consistency in our wiki. Please feel free to change the entry to your heart's content, I would only ask that the result be self-consistent (unlike the previous entry on runway naming).
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:04 pm

DwarfLord wrote:I really don't see anything wrong in a "soft standard" here that articulates guidance in terms of "preferred" and "acceptable alternative" approaches. A soft standard has the advantage of not suddenly throwing the work of diligent wiki-abiding editors into noncompliance, while still establishing the consensus convention.

I think in this case we can easily describe the hierarchy for editors to follow and everyone can easily identify the proper entry. I updated the Wiki (with external links) based on the above conversation:
Wiki Update wrote:Name each runway using the airport identifier, the word ''Runway'', and the runway designations with the lower number first (e.g., "SMF Runway 16R-34L".) The primary airport identifier that should be used is the IATA 3-letter code, for example "SFO", "LAX", "JFK", etc. If the airport in question is not included in that list, use the ICAO 4-letter code instead. If the airport is not included in that list use the FAA identifier.
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Re: IATA, ICAO, FAA

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:08 pm

DwarfLord wrote:This is a wiki for the US only.

Technically this is a USA page yes. However we have a lot of countries that follow the US standard exactly. Therefore when there are options that are more universal, we do our best to use the more flexible solution.

Otherwise I agree the FAA code appears to be the easier and complete solution for the US alone.
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Re: IATA, ICAO, FAA

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:23 pm

DwarfLord wrote:Is that wrong?

It's not a clear statement.
The FAA identifier is derived from the ICAO code by dropping the initial letter (region code) if the airport has an ICAO code. An ICAO code is unique internationally.

BOS is the identifier assigned by the FAA to the primary navigational aid associated with the KBOS airport.

Before GPS, flying to BOS (the radio beacon) was the way to fly to the airport.
Now, if I put into the GPS a destination of BOS, I fly to the Boston VOR (radio beacon).
If I want to fly directly to the airport, I put in the airport identifier KBOS.

The three letter code is normally a VOR. The ICAO code is the airfield.
The FAA airport identifier actually means the primary radio beacon, not the airfield itself or the runways.

DwarfLord wrote:This is a wiki for the US only. If every airport in the US has an FAA identifier, why bother with IATA or ICAO?


In one case, the FAA identifier won't be the IATA code. The IATA is the one most familiar to the public.
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Re: IATA, ICAO, FAA

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:47 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:… a lot of countries that follow the US standard exactly. Therefore when there are options that are more universal, we do our best to use the more flexible solution.


The order of precedence IATA, ICAO, national civil aviation authority (FAA in USA) identifier should work universally.

kentsmith9 wrote:… I agree the FAA code appears to be the easier and complete solution for the US alone.


I expect that someone mapping runways for KDWA is most likely to call the airport KDWA (ICAO identifier; there is no IATA code DWA, and no beacon DWA). KDWA unambiguously refers to the airfield. Thus three-letter codes are IATA, four-letter codes are ICAO, and anything else is national. If you use FAA codes where there is an ICAO code, then you cannot tell whether it is an IATA code because it looks like one.

If you want an international standard, use the hierarchy. In my opinion, it is simple enough.

If you want purely national consistency and don't care to use IATA, use only the FAA identifier. But understand that the FAA often identifies airports by the full ICAO code because it is unambiguous.
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Re: FAA

Postby dbraughlr » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:12 am

As the FAA decode sheet linked above shows, FDK identifies the following:
  • FREDERICK MUNI ARPT
  • FREDERICK MUNI ILS RWY 23 [radio beacon]
  • FREDERICK VOR [radio beacon]
  • FREDERICK RCO [remote communications outlet radio]

The ICAO code KFDK identifies solely and unambiguously Frederick Municipal Airport.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby slash77777 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:47 pm

Need to FIX airport locations!

Enter the 3 letter code, MSP = Minneapolis St Paul airport, It should provide the address of the terminal where a normal passenger...99.99995% of Wazers want to go there.

Currently MSP leads one to 4300 Glumack Dr, St. Paul MN - This is the correct address, but the WAZE map does not have the right location. I think one can get to the control tower maybe. Leads to a restricted road. This is NOT useful!
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Re: FAA

Postby HavanaDay » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:44 pm

dbraughlr wrote:As the FAA decode sheet linked above shows, FDK identifies the following:
  • FREDERICK MUNI ARPT
  • FREDERICK MUNI ILS RWY 23 [radio beacon]
  • FREDERICK VOR [radio beacon]
  • FREDERICK RCO [remote communications outlet radio]

The ICAO code KFDK identifies solely and unambiguously Frederick Municipal Airport.


This is not a flying app. At least until we get flying cars. In a car you will not be driving the ILS, or driving to the VOR, and you certainly won't be talking to the RCO.

IATA Codes work. It is what people know. It is generally what is on their baggage claim. I don't think too many people know that Heathrow is EGLL, but they probably know it as LHR.
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Re: FAA

Postby dbraughlr » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:33 am

HavanaDay wrote:IATA Codes work. It is what people know. It is generally what is on their baggage claim.

That's what I said. My post was against using FAA code as a complete solution for the USA and instead using the IATA code where there is one.
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