Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby pumrum » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:05 pm

sketch wrote:Yes. They've been there at MSY for almost a year, not causing any problems.

To supplement this, a non-driveable segment such as a runway should never be connected to the driveable segment network, so the routing engine would not be able to route you onto a runway - even if a landmark/place marker stop point was physically on top of the runway. it will route you to the nearest driveable segment
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby pumrum » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:27 pm

along the same lines of this conversation -- can someone with contacts at WazeHQ ask them what their advice is on the recent changes to Google Maps regarding airports? We have a lot of major airports where when you search for the airport name, the auto-complete result gets you to the google pin which is located at the geographic center of the google airport landmark -- directing the driver to go to a very wrong part of the airport, sometimes putting them in a place where there are no signs (charlotte) or can cause a lot of extra driving (nashville).

Waze has maintained that we shouldn't "hack" together solutions to make up for shortcomings in the software, but in some airports CMs/AMs are having to put in dummy roads that go out into the middle of the airport just to get drivers to the right place.

I understand the guidance to recommend that users manually select the "Waze" tab, but this is not a good option. If this is the recommendation, then the auto-complete should default only to show Waze results. I said it before and I'll say it again -- the fastest way to lose users is to get them lost on the way to the airport.
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Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby pumrum » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:12 pm

Not to resurrect what should be a very dead horse -- but as of 3.9, runways are now returned in search results (can't say for certain that they weren't before, but they definitely are now). If we continue with our current naming standard (ABC Runway 18-36), and someone searches for the airport identifier, all of the runways turn up in the search results. In my opinion, this is not desirable.

Given this, unless the search engine is modified to omit runway segments from the result, I think we should backtrack slightly and name the runways simply "Runway 18-36" and omit the identifier.

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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby qwaletee » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:18 pm

Should this topic remain open and separate from
https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=276&t=85397
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:27 pm

I believe most are already in accord on most of these points. I'm not sure when the latest runway/airport road discussion took place exactly (a few months ago), or where it was, though.

I agree on runways except that there's no reason to include any airport identifier, so "Runway 4R/22L".

I agree on elevation.

I agree on leaving restricted-access roads off the map, and this was a significant part of that former discussion. The community agrees on this, I believe.

As for standard naming, I agree with this as well. I've been doing the same in practice:

MSY - Long Term Parking
MSY - Departures
MSY - Rental Car Return
DTW - McNamara Terminal - International Arrivals
DTW - McNamara Terminal - Departures
DTW - North Terminal - Departures

...and so forth. Should be "[FAA] - {terminal if needed} - [whatever it is]", set using point places.

I think some of this is in the Wiki already, I'm just not sure where. Agreed some of it should be in the Road types article.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:35 pm

Runways haven't been visible in the client as long as I remember, so I don't know why that would happen unless someone has been adding them as private road or something.

Runways (like railroads) will almost definitely be displayed in the client in the future, but not as, and not similarly to, drivable roads. Staff has already expressed their intent to display all non drivable types in the future. (Look at the live map, they're already there.) Runways make an airport immediately identifiable as an airport.


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Re: runways

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:03 am

dbraughlr wrote:
sketch wrote:Runways make an airport immediately identifiable as an airport.

Having the airport identifier in the runway name immediately identifies the airport.

Yes, but the identifier will already be in the Place name, making the name on the runways redundant.

As pumrum said, we don't even know whether names will be displayed on nondrivables at all. The names are not displayed in the live map currently.

If they are, though, I'd rather see "MSY – Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport" on the Area and "Runway 10/28" on the runway. The second (third, fourth...) MSY on the runway, as a display-only feature (if even that), is redundant. You can't turn off the Places layer in the client.

daknife wrote:Areas over the runways/airports take care of the distinctive landmark aspect. Always have.

Tapatalking via my Galaxy S4

A large shaded area does not signify "airport", it signifies "landmark" ("area place"). A large shaded area with runways in it signifies "airport". Anything that makes a Place more immediately identifiable without having to read text is good from a design perspective and from a road safety perspective. That's why parks are green and lakes are blue.

Look at any other GPS map and you'll see a representation of runways (and taxiways!) on the map at the airports.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:51 am

It's the combination of the shaded area and the lines...
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 am

Sure, so do I. But we should always be editing with the client, not the editor, in mind, since the client is what users see and what matters. In the client, the Area name serves the purpose of airport identification.

If you're in the editor working on an airport, you'll at least have turned the Places layer on to check/add/modify the airport Place[s].
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:45 pm

No. Slow it down. Read it again.

You are saying "IATA code on runways is not redundant for me [in the editor] because I edit with Places layer off."

I am saying
  • "Editing rules are not designed to make things look right in the editor. They are designed to make things look and work right in the client. So if runway names even show up at all, including the IATA code on runways would be redundant."
  • "And whatever airport-identifying advantages IATA codes in runway names would have in the editor are basically nil. If you're actually in the editor paying attention to the airport, editing the airport, you will have turned the Places layer on at least once to check that the airport's Area Place is proper and conforming, so you would already be aware of which airport you are working on. So the IATA name there becomes largely redundant also."
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