Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:12 pm

slash77777 wrote:Need to FIX airport locations!

Enter the 3 letter code, MSP = Minneapolis St Paul airport, It should provide the address of the terminal where a normal passenger...99.99995% of Wazers want to go there.

Currently MSP leads one to 4300 Glumack Dr, St. Paul MN - This is the correct address, but the WAZE map does not have the right location. I think one can get to the control tower maybe. Leads to a restricted road. This is NOT useful!

Our guidance says restricted roads inside the airport should not be mapped. That MIGHT fix it.

Sadly Google went on a crusade to 'fix' all their airport locations a certain way that can still break Waze directions even if the map is edited perfectly. I had to "hack" the map at MSY (New Orleans Intl) to provide correct directions, cause Google locked their pin at the center of airport grounds rather than at the terminal where it used to be.

Solution for users in the know: click "search" instead of using the instant result, and use one from the Waze tab.


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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:24 pm

pumrum wrote:Taxiways
I would recommend providing guidance that airport taxiways should not be mapped. In many larger airports the taxiways can be quite complex, would appear the same size/color as runways, and would reduce the distinctive appearance of the runways being identified as runways.

A new editor has just added a pile of taxiways to SFO. I started to PM him, but realized that, despite pumrum's suggestion that opened this thread, the road-type wiki remains silent on taxiways.

sketch wrote:Our guidance says restricted roads inside the airport should not be mapped.

The guidance sketch refers to (I'm not sure where it's located) does not quite apply since these aren't exactly "restricted roads" but full-fledged taxiways. For when pilots need Waze to avoid traffic on the tarmac I suppose. Who needs ATC? :o

Nobody has objected to pumrum's suggestion above. Even a Waze editor who was enthusiastic about mapping airports couldn't support taxiways that are purely for use by aircraft (emphasis mine):
jdwaters wrote:Having the taxiways mapped is of slight navigational benefit for airport users. At general aviation airports it is somewhat common for street vehicles to drive on taxiways to reach hangars and aviation businesses (e.g. Saratoga Springs, where the parking lot for the two glider hangars is reachable only by driving on taxiways). Having the taxiways depicted on the map is helpful, but they certainly should not be connected to the road network so as to avoid directing unauthorized traffic onto taxiways. I don't think there is much navigational benefit while operating an aircraft; if you're at an airport large enough that you need a map of the taxiways, you should have a formal airport chart available.


So, I recommend we modify the Road types (USA) wiki as follows, addition in italics. Concur?

updated wiki suggestion wrote:Where a street also serves as a taxiway (such as in a community with through-the-fence access) map the street as a street. No drivable road should connect to or cross over any runway. A road may cross under a runway by ensuring the elevation is set below that of the runway segment. Despite its title, the Runway/Taxiway road type should never be used for airport taxiways. Taxiways not intended for common access by street vehicles should not be mapped at all with any road type.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby DwarfLord » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:01 am

OK, I have modified the Runway/Taxiway wiki description to prohibit using the Runway/Taxiway road type for taxiways.

I took the liberty of wordsmithing this section (except for the paragraph on naming, which was in very good shape already), but with no change in content aside from the taxiway clarity.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby qwaletee » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:18 pm

Should this topic remain open and separate from
https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=276&t=85397
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:01 pm

I honestly wouldn't mind mapping taxiways (using the runway/taxiway type) if only we could get consensus. I think adding taxiways would make airports more readily identifiable as such, but it's no big deal either way. It'd be nice to have a thicker line for runways and a thinner one for taxiways, but it's nothing near necessary.

qwaletee wrote:Should this topic remain open and separate from
https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=276&t=85397

Yes. The linked topic concerns drivable (and public) roads. Runways are not a "drivable" type in Waze (though I suppose they are technically so), and they certainly aren't "public".
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:26 pm

FYI I just added this sentence to the "naming" paragraph, as I realized the guidance was silent on the "City" field and I've run across a couple of well-meaning editors who entered the IATA or spelled-out airfield name for the City:
Slight mod to wiki wrote:For the "City" field of runway segments, check "None" to avoid any chance of city smudging.


Regarding taxiways, the argument that mapping them using the Runway/Taxiway type would lead to display confusion -- since runways and taxiways would render identically -- is what persuaded me that it's a bad idea for now.

And besides, there is the extra editor burden in policing the stuff. Another editor has already deleted those taxiways at SFO that I mentioned earlier, but I should have taken a screenshot. It was like mapping every lane in the parking lot, except for aircraft. Nearly every gate at Terminal 3 had its own lane. Rather than try to guide and mentor and encourage editors to do taxiways correctly I feel editor time is better spent saying "please don't map taxiways that are only for aircraft -- see the wiki here" and having done with :mrgreen:

There is an alternate approach you can see at the Santa Barbara airport. Used the "Airport" place area to delineate the boundaries of the taxiways instead of the complete airport property. Totally violates our style guidelines but I guess nobody's had the heart to turn it into one big blob. :P
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Re: taxiways

Postby dbraughlr » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:01 am

Runways almost never appear to touch a road on the map. Mapping taxiways definitely reduces the distinctiveness of runways as seen in WME. Personally, I am not keen on having unusable roads in the app because sometimes I drive using the map rather than navigation. I don't want to be lost at an airport and have to contend with a clutter of taxiways which inevitably will be connected to or at least much closer to usable roads.

But the rules for big airports don't have to be the same as for small airports.
An advantage of mapping any non-drivable path is that it can be locked to prevent it from being attached to the drivable roadway or paved from the app.

I can imagine that there are exceptions where having a taxiway mapped could be useful, but not because anyone drives on it (as suggested by jdwaters). Ultimately whether taxiways are mapped doesn't matter much to me. I just don't see the point unless it is to prevent newbies from mapping them.

Taxiways tend to be a complex network at larger airports and if they are shown in the app, I think they would be more clutter rather than useful for orientation. So I agree with pumrum on that.

Example of small airport where taxiway crosses a public road.

Dual use taxiways should be mapped as streets or parking lot roads. But they must not connect to runways. I think we never want a connection from a drivable road to a runway, railroad, walking trail, or staircase. So if a taxiway is mapped, it should not connect to a runway.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:17 am

Runways are bright yellow in the app, and if the comments in the skin file are to be believed, they are intended to be alternating-yellow-and-black lines. (There's a similar comment about cross-hatching railroads.) So I wouldn't worry about that.

Taxiways do reduce the distinctiveness of runways, so I agree with their exclusion. I just think it would be nice to have both, with runways painted with thicker lines. Adding taxiways increases the distinctiveness of airports. But that's just talk—I certainly don't expect an additional type just for that.

Internal roads in airports should never be mapped with any drivable type whether they're taxiways or not. That's been an overarching theme through this thread. Although admittedly I'm not sure what you mean by a "dual use taxiway"; if it really is a taxiway also used as a public road, or as a small airport's parking lot, then that's fine.

Generally I would just say "don't map taxiways at all". In your linked example, though, I would agree that it should be mapped with the runway/taxiway type, since a car might face an oncoming plane there.


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Re: dual-use taxiways

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:36 pm

sketch wrote:Runways are bright yellow in the app

So far, I have not seen this. My app still doesn't display runways.

sketch wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by a "dual use taxiway"; if it really is a taxiway also used as a public road, or as a small airport's parking lot, then that's fine.

Dual-use roadways in Cameron Park, California.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:16 am

Runways are displayed in 3.8.0 in the default day scheme only.


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