Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

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Re: runways

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:46 pm

dbraughlr wrote:That seems lot a lot of assumptions about what I should be doing or why it couldn't possibly be of any use to me. I didn't mean to imply that I was editing an airport. I might be scrolling through looking at URs. I might be editing nearby. It doesn't matter why I am there. I prefer to check an airport by looking at (or clicking on) a runway rather than turning on Places layer, clicking on the area, then turning Places layer off. It is just extremely simple.

What you're missing (or refusing to acknowledge) is that the names' usefulness to you in the editor is beside the point. Yet again, we edit for the client and the navigation server, not for the editor.

Maybe you're hearing me, maybe we're saying the same things, but you're missing the point.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:34 am

dbraughlr wrote:What exactly is effectively different between your statement and mine?

You are stating that we should include the IATA code on runways because it's better for you in the editor.

I am stating that we should not include the IATA code on runways because it is better not to for purposes of the client.

Do you see the difference there?
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:35 pm

I'm saying it might in the future. We made the same assumption when coming up with the railroad naming rules.
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Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:00 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Naming standard of "LR" or "RL"? or lower number first always regardless of L or R? How about runways with no L-R?

Lower number first regardless of LR. That's how I always see them listed. Look at a Wikipedia article about an airport.

IMO "4L/22R" and "4R/22L" looks better and more balanced than "4L/22R" and "22L/4R" anyway.

Pavement markings on perpendicular taxiways order the numbers one way or the other depending on which direction you're facing. Seems paradoxical, but the first number is the azimuth to the right and the second number is the azimuth to the left. So if you're facing north, about to intersect an east-west runway, you'll see "9-27" – 90° (east) to the right, and 270° (west) to the left. Across the runway, facing south, the marking says "27-9".

Point being that it's arbitrary, and that convention seems to put the lower number first when the name is used outside of a particular sort of context.

Also, is there confirmation that runways, like walking trails, definitely DO NOT cause routing problems? Specifically, if a runway is closer to the google search result (because G is still the preferred POI provider) than any other segment, then Waze may try to route as close as it can to that runway.

Yes. They've been there at MSY for almost a year, not causing any problems.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:46 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:That's not the problem which some non-driveable segments will cause. It will, with walking trails, for example, see that a walking trail, not connected to any other segment, is closest to the lat/lon of the search result, and then will route you to the spot on the segment closest to that walking trail it can get.

Pretty sure that's only true of non-drivables which are currently visible in the client. Walking trails are displayed in the client; runways are not.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:40 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:As for runways, I have always questioned the true purpose from Waze perspective, but assuming they want to market to pilots one day or we just want to see the airport as a landmark, we just need to be sure Waze will not include a runway as a routable segment once it appears in the client. Otherwise we will get routed to the back of the airport fence just because the runways are closer to the airport marker than the roadways in front of the terminal.

I assume it's been reconsidered as serving a sort of landmark purpose. Same as railroads — both were removed from the client a long time ago.

I believe the technical reason was that the client had no way of drawing a segment that wasn't also necessarily selectable and, at least in some way, navigable. A big change came to the livemap recently, and I believe it's safe to assume a similar big change will come to the client map in time — in fact, we were told as much by Waze staff. I assume with such a big change to the map will come a big change in the way the map is rendered, including the ability to render lines without having them also selectable and somehow navigable. Maybe I'm not as skeptical as others, but I don't believe Waze would be reintroducing railroads and runways into the client without ensuring that they are not navigable, considering how many complaints we used to get, forever ago.

Since railroads and runways are already displayed on the livemap, maybe we could build a rig and see what the routing server does. Although I'm not sure it's fair to assume that the routing server has been updated to meet the specifications of a client version that may still be months away.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:36 pm

See the post above yours. Although I don't know what "FAA code" is.

The IATA three-letter code is the one familiar to consumers. People fly to "SFO" or "DFW" or "LAX" or "JFK". For that reason, consensus is to use the IATA code if it exists, and the ICAO code (I believe) if it does not.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:52 pm

I don't think a "soft standard" is necessary or desirable here. The masses think of airports by their names and by their three-letter codes. Waze is a consumer app. Use the three-letter code if it exists, otherwise use the other one (because not every airport has a three-letter code).

Consistency is still important and we should strive for it wherever possible, especially where it's so easy to achieve.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:12 pm

slash77777 wrote:Need to FIX airport locations!

Enter the 3 letter code, MSP = Minneapolis St Paul airport, It should provide the address of the terminal where a normal passenger...99.99995% of Wazers want to go there.

Currently MSP leads one to 4300 Glumack Dr, St. Paul MN - This is the correct address, but the WAZE map does not have the right location. I think one can get to the control tower maybe. Leads to a restricted road. This is NOT useful!

Our guidance says restricted roads inside the airport should not be mapped. That MIGHT fix it.

Sadly Google went on a crusade to 'fix' all their airport locations a certain way that can still break Waze directions even if the map is edited perfectly. I had to "hack" the map at MSY (New Orleans Intl) to provide correct directions, cause Google locked their pin at the center of airport grounds rather than at the terminal where it used to be.

Solution for users in the know: click "search" instead of using the instant result, and use one from the Waze tab.


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Re: Road Types (USA) – Airports and Surrounding Area

Postby sketch » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:01 pm

I honestly wouldn't mind mapping taxiways (using the runway/taxiway type) if only we could get consensus. I think adding taxiways would make airports more readily identifiable as such, but it's no big deal either way. It'd be nice to have a thicker line for runways and a thinner one for taxiways, but it's nothing near necessary.

qwaletee wrote:Should this topic remain open and separate from
https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=276&t=85397

Yes. The linked topic concerns drivable (and public) roads. Runways are not a "drivable" type in Waze (though I suppose they are technically so), and they certainly aren't "public".
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