[Updated] House Numbers in WME

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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby jdeyoung » Thu May 01, 2014 2:43 pm

tonestertm wrote:Unlike the way it handles Google markers, Waze routing Does Not Care where the Number portion of a House Number sits. The important routing work is done by the Stop Point. The Number bubble is just a placeholder, visually cuing us humans to which building the Stop Point with that address, ties.

I do apologize for my lack of precision. The placement of the number bubble (untouched) only represents the point where google will route to until the bubble is touched and available to users only when the tile is updated (as discussed elsewhere). The oddity here is that the stop point was a feature introduced later (I think) after the addresses had already been placed from the mass-import - and yet all of the stop points are generally anchored to the proper street - not the alley. So waze had some knowledge in that process.
So, out of habit when touching addresses, I move the bubbles closer to the street - and then subsequent editors have a visual cue of addresses which have been touched along a given street.
That point is actually key, since the stop point of the address behaves similarly to the newly exposed "place handle" which shows the point within the "area place" that you would be routed to - like gas stations and larger areas.
Thanks for making the clarifying point about the bubbles location. ;)
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:34 am

I added a link from [[WME Errors]] to the new House Number error section.

bigbear3764 wrote:I remember seeing a post that the champs were going to find out from waze what added to WME causes a tile update. Did we find out if adding house numbers causes a tile update or do we have to nudge the road to get the update.

Currently no update from house number edits. https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Map_tiles#Trigger_updates
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:00 pm

Two separate issues.

1) House numbers that have been modified will be searched first by Waze, but only if the tiles are updated that hold that segment and house number.

2) Tile updates occur for the reasons listed on that page noted above. If nothing in a tile causes an update on its own, the system will eventually just update the tile automatically. This can take 10+ days depending upon what else the servers are processing that cycle.

If you happen to move a street with a house number that has complaints and then suddenly it is working, it seems plausible that someone else actually updated the house number location before you, but did not trigger a tile update. Your movement of the segment forced the tile update that now uses the newly moved house number.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu May 01, 2014 8:45 pm

sketch wrote:
krikketdoug wrote:So when I do a search for "Sushi House", what point is Waze going to route me to, if there is a conflict between the street address it finds and the landmark. (Shouldn't happen, but I'm thinking about resolving future problems.)

The Place. House numbers are only used if you search for an address (and if it is matched with a Google address).

Say you add a Place named Sushi House with the address 3333 Jefferson Hwy, and also a 3333 house number point on Jefferson Hwy. Searching and routing to Sushi House will take you to the Place. Searching and routing to 3333 Jefferson Hwy will take you to the house number stop point (if the Google-Waze match works properly).

They don't work with each other. So if you have only added the 3333 house number, searching for Sushi House will take you to the Google/Foursquare/whatever point for Sushi House, while searching for 3333 Jefferson Hwy will take you to the Waze address point (assuming it works properly). On the other hand, if you have only added the Place for Sushi House with the 3333 Jefferson Hwy address — but not a 3333 house number — and search for Sushi House, you will get the Place in the Waze tab; but if you search for 3333 Jefferson Hwy, you'll get the Google address marker location.

This is good. We should put something specific like this in the Wiki or under the FAQ.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri May 02, 2014 12:33 am

krikketdoug wrote:In the past Waze has routed me correctly. (I'm guessing that is due to Google's influence.) Tonight, when I looked at the map, the stop point is back on Wolcott Ave. I am unable to move it "back" to the correct position on Blanchard Dr.

Why can you not move it back and what is it that changed to route you to the wrong location now?
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby krikketdoug » Thu May 01, 2014 12:53 pm

A few comments, since I've been doing a lot of address editing lately.

Background, I've been travelling to businesses that I've never been to, and making small changes where appropriate. Adding a drive thru here or there, moving the address marker from the middle of the parking lot to the entrance of the business, or more often than not, adding an address marker if the location is in the suburbs.

One thing that I've found through experimentation (Pulling the numbers I'm using here out of my ass, I don't have an example in front of me) is that if it's a strip mall, and the entire mall is "house number" 33, but each business has a suite number 105, Waze doesn't accept 33 as the address. It *does* accept #33-105 as the "house number". And this is when there are NO building numbers already associated with the building. I don't think this is in the documentation. If so, I've failed to find it...

As for the large number of buildings in Chicago that have poorly placed address markers, causing people to be routed into alleys, I've found that the more markers on a given street (and in Chicago that can be quite a few) Waze is more likely to "break down" and fail to allow me to move the markers. In a recent example, I asked a local level 5 for help, and his reply was "sometimes that happens" and made an attempt to move them as well. Between us with multiple attempts to correct the placement, still only about half the block on the street is done.

(And yes, I verified the numbering is correct, it was just placed slightly to close to the alley so you get routed incorrectly. After adjustment in the example, I was routed correctly.)

Also, I'm curious about how landmarks are involved now that they also have addresses. Since we're now landmarking just about everything I've begun to add landmarks for these businesses (usually restaurants) and have been including addresses. So when I do a search for "Sushi House", what point is Waze going to route me to, if there is a conflict between the street address it finds and the landmark. (Shouldn't happen, but I'm thinking about resolving future problems.)

Just my thoughts. And probably worth what you paid to read them. 8^)

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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby krikketdoug » Thu May 01, 2014 11:11 pm

Absolutely. I can see a few problems here.

I'm going to use my own home as an example, but as I don't want to give up my address on a public forum, I'm going to make up some information.

I live at 323 N Wolcott Ave. The house is on the corner of Wolcott Ave. and Blanchard Dr. While the address is on Wolcott Ave, the house faces Blanchard Dr., and people should be routed to Blanchard Dr. In the past Waze has routed me correctly. (I'm guessing that is due to Google's influence.) Tonight, when I looked at the map, the stop point is back on Wolcott Ave. I am unable to move it "back" to the correct position on Blanchard Dr.

Now for a more complicated example that I ran across today.

I was driving down a street to make a delivery to a local business. This business was in a strip mall with a complex parking lot. I was routed to the stop point, and then Waze quickly recalculated how to get into the lot and to the door of the business.

Depending on the shape, size, and number of entrances to the lot, this can create bad directions. The way around this would be to be able to move the end point to the correct part of the parking lot road, but from the previous example of where I live, it seems like Waze is unable to do that.

Net effect: We're back to guiding people to the general area of their destination just like most GPS systems do, but then the usefulness degrades quickly (and IMnsHO unnecessarily).
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby krikketdoug » Fri May 02, 2014 1:10 am

kentsmith9 wrote:
krikketdoug wrote:In the past Waze has routed me correctly. (I'm guessing that is due to Google's influence.) Tonight, when I looked at the map, the stop point is back on Wolcott Ave. I am unable to move it "back" to the correct position on Blanchard Dr.

Why can you not move it back and what is it that changed to route you to the wrong location now?


I can't move it back because Waze won't let me move it to a street that is different than the street Waze thinks the endpoint should be on.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby krikketdoug » Fri May 02, 2014 1:26 am

krikketdoug wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote:
krikketdoug wrote:In the past Waze has routed me correctly. (I'm guessing that is due to Google's influence.) Tonight, when I looked at the map, the stop point is back on Wolcott Ave. I am unable to move it "back" to the correct position on Blanchard Dr.

Why can you not move it back and what is it that changed to route you to the wrong location now?


I can't move it back because Waze won't let me move it to a street that is different than the street Waze thinks the endpoint should be on.


Just a random thought, but maybe moving the endpoint off the designated street to another street is considered "forcing" an address change? Before it was just moving a marker which didn't need a 3rd level Editor...

Dunno. Just commenting as the additional thoughts hit me.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby krikketdoug » Sun May 04, 2014 2:08 pm

tonestertm wrote: This is the purpose of the "(Stop) Point" in the new Places system. If the parking lot is correctly mapped, and the Place is correctly mapped, with the Point placed on/near the closest parking lot segment, as long as you're navigating to the Place and not the Address (as described by Sketch, above) navigation should be flawless, no matter which direction you're coming from.

That is, of course, assuming you've chosen the Waze search result.... :D

(Might be nice if there were something in the auto-complete results showing from which provider each result came... off to the beta forum I go.... :) )


Agreed about wanting to know where the search result came from. I remember a ticket where the problem came from bad address information in Yelp...

I'm going to use a specific example about the larger issue.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-88.38 ... 88&env=usa

I had "Bistro Wasabi" with a house marker, like 4550 Algonquin road. (I haven't touched 4550 yet, because I don't know offhand what business it is, and it makes for a clearer example in this discussion.)

4550 has the end point. Reading your comments above, it sounds like Bistro Wasabi (4590) should have an end point for the Places marker, and I should be able to move it to the parking lot segment, which I cannot do with 4550.

Am I understanding correctly? If so, how to I get an end-point for the Places marker?

(And right now, the reason for the marker being at the edge of the building is to prevent routing to the service alley, which was the original reason for adding the address.)

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