[Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuvers

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[Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuvers

Postby PesachZ » Sun May 04, 2014 8:57 am

After reading and rereading this page many times to understand how to better edit junctions and control navigation instructions, I think I finally understand it. I wanted to make it easier for new or non-technical editors to understand.

I copied the page to my name space and modified it there. I went through the entire page, fixed and added links, removed outdated (papyrus) references, added new descriptive images, changed some formatting, and added clarifying (I hope) text. You can see the proposed updated page here.

Please let me know if you think this is an improvement, or if it still needs work.

Thank you

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Re: [Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuve

Postby davielde » Sun May 04, 2014 1:13 pm

Very nice. This does make it clearer. I especially like the inclusion of the two "special considerations", and the flow chart helps. Will look at it in more detail when I'm not on Tapatalk, but I want to follow this discussion.
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Re: [Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuve

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun May 04, 2014 4:45 pm

The images should be uploaded into the Wiki so we can control the size to fit in the standard layout. If you are not sure how to do that, I can do it for you.
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Re: [Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuve

Postby PesachZ » Sun May 04, 2014 4:54 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:The images should be uploaded into the Wiki so we can control the size to fit in the standard layout. If you are not sure how to do that, I can do it for you.

I have no idea how to, but if you'd like to show me if be happy to, or you can do it for me.
Thanks

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Re: [Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuve

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Sun May 04, 2014 9:42 pm

PesachZ wrote:I have no idea how to, but if you'd like to show me if be happy to, or you can do it for me.

There is, FYI, an Upload a File link in the left sidebar of every page.
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Re: [Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuve

Postby PesachZ » Sun May 04, 2014 10:00 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:The images should be uploaded into the Wiki so we can control the size to fit in the standard layout. If you are not sure how to do that, I can do it for you.
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
PesachZ wrote:I have no idea how to, but if you'd like to show me if be happy to, or you can do it for me.

There is, FYI, an Upload a File link in the left sidebar of every page.

Thank you for the info :D . I replaced with the images with copies uploaded to the local wiki. I set the size on the second (larger) one to 700 pixels wide.
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Re: [Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuve

Postby CBenson » Tue May 06, 2014 5:12 pm

I have some comments.

First, this page was created by waze staff and has always contained some errors. I think the best course of action is write a new page and revert the old page (which I can't currently access) back to the way the staff provided it for reference as the guidance we actually received from waze.

Despite what the original page states, there doesn't have to be a "best continuation." In other words, in the right circumstances you can get an instruction for every exiting segment for a particular s-in.

"The angle between this segment and s-in is smaller than the angle between s-out and s-in" is a bogus requirement. I've never found an example where the relative angles have any effect at all.

Basically, if s-out is the only exiting segment with a turn angle of less than 45 degrees then you get no turn instruction for s-out. If there are multiple exiting segments with turn angles of less than 45 degrees, then if one has a better street name & road type match then it will not get a turn instruction. If there are multiple exiting segments with turn angles of less than 45 degrees and there is not one with a better street name & road type match, then you get a turn instruction for each exiting segment.

You get a "turn" instruction if the turn angle is over 45 degrees regardless of whether the street name and road type matches.

I have never seen an actual example of the turn instruction not given at a T into a one-way road.
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Re: [Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuve

Postby qwaletee » Tue May 06, 2014 6:21 pm

Hi,

I think you may be misinterpreting the whole angle thing, since it is in fact badly written with not every use case (or piece of logic) converted. There's clearly a language barrier at work.

There are two major steps to the algorithm. The first decides whether the maneuver through the next junction should consider an instruction. The second decides what instruction that should be.

The 45 degree angle stuff is part off the second part. At this point, the routing engine thinks that an instruction is necessary, but has to decide what instruction that should be. The instruction it gives will be in relation to the straight ahead continuation ... aka Best Continuation. If the angle is bigger, left; smaller, right. There are additional factors that will determine keep/turn/exit, which include additional angle measurements and road types.

Unfortunately, it is not described well.

I would like this converted to a flow chart. Of Waze is not willing pit one of, we can create a Steadman and have them tell us where we got it wrong.

Just to give an example of how the angles work that may be counterintuitive. Say you have a girl in the road, but both forks are right of 180 degrees. The main road is bent at a 140 degree angle (call this northeast for simplicity). The branch is a few degrees right of center, call that NNE. Even though you have to turn slightly RIGHT to take the branch, the instruction is to keep LEFT, because it is left of the Best Continuation. That's the whole point of the best continuation, to provide a reference point compare to for right or left. It says nothing about how sharp the driver maneuver is.

Separately, for keep/exit/turn, it has to check the angle of the road you're on to the road you're going to, which determines how sharp the maneuver is.

That is my understanding of the algorithm. Due to ambiguous language and a few logic holes, I can't determine many additional details.
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Re: [Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuve

Postby CBenson » Tue May 06, 2014 7:29 pm

qwaletee wrote:Just to give an example of how the angles work that may be counterintuitive. Say you have a girl in the road, but both forks are right of 180 degrees. The main road is bent at a 140 degree angle (call this northeast for simplicity). The branch is a few degrees right of center, call that NNE. Even though you have to turn slightly RIGHT to take the branch, the instruction is to keep LEFT, because it is left of the Best Continuation. That's the whole point of the best continuation, to provide a reference point compare to for right or left. It says nothing about how sharp the driver maneuver is.

But there are no* examples of instructions that actually work this way. A route from any s-in to any s-out that gets an instruction and deviates to the right, gets a "right" instructions. A route from any s-in to any s-out that gets an instruction and deviates to the left, gets a "left" instructions. Where the "best continuation is (if there is one) has no effect.

*The only exception may be where the angle is zero, in which case whether you get a keep/exit/stay right or keep/stay left may depend on whether there is another segment to the right or left.
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Re: [Page Update] How Waze determines turn/keep/exit maneuve

Postby PesachZ » Tue May 06, 2014 9:39 pm

Thank you very much for the detailed feedback.
CBenson wrote:I have some comments.

First, this page was created by waze staff and has always contained some errors. I think the best course of action is write a new page and revert the old page (which I can't currently access) back to the way the staff provided it for reference as the guidance we actually received from waze.

This is a possibility, however if we know the page has errors, how hard would it be to get an updated accurate version from Waze staff?

CBenson wrote:Despite what the original page states, there doesn't have to be a "best continuation." In other words, in the right circumstances you can get an instruction for every exiting segment for a particular s-in.

I tried to cover this under Special Considerations, although it could be worded better with more concrete evidence for specific scenarions.

CBenson wrote:"The angle between this segment and s-in is smaller than the angle between s-out and s-in" is a bogus requirement. I've never found an example where the relative angles have any effect at all.
Basically, if s-out is the only exiting segment with a turn angle of less than 45 degrees then you get no turn instruction for s-out. If there are multiple exiting segments with turn angles of less than 45 degrees, then if one has a better street name & road type match then it will not get a turn instruction. If there are multiple exiting segments with turn angles of less than 45 degrees and there is not one with a better street name & road type match, then you get a turn instruction for each exiting segment.

I will try to test this and report back.
EDIT: In the meantime I updated the wording on the 1st Special Consideration to reflect this logic.

CBenson wrote:You always get a "turn" instruction if the turn angle is over 45 degrees, regardless of whether the street name and road type matches.

This 90° left turn from Mt Eden Pkwy to Topping does not produce any instruction in the client.

CBenson wrote:I have never seen an actual example of the turn instruction not given at a T into a one-way road.

Agreed. If nobody else can provide an example, perhaps this can be removed.
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