No through traffic

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Re: No through traffic

Postby vectorspace » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:00 am

Fredo-p wrote:After checking Google Street View, I have noticed that nearly every road south of this location is sporting the "Private Road" sings. So how would this be addressed?


Good observational work... I wonder what these various examples you have shown are all about. Truly private roads are owned by the residents or a neighborhood association of some type, and usually maintained by those people. These roads look like they are public. Anyone can put up a sign though to try to keep people out. I wonder what is really going on with these?

The signs you show and that I could see on street view look like they were posted by residents, not a municipal authority.

If they are really private property, then I would say we could go with the Private Installation page guidance and those updates which we're trying to develop in this discussion.

If someone just posted signs, then I would not bother to adjust the map.

I guess one could further research the topic to see exactly who owns these roads.
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Re: No through traffic

Postby Fredo-p » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:43 am

Well, it has to be something along the lines of an HOA, because the Private Road signs all appear to be the same. If it is something like an HOA, then they, sadly, have the power to govern roadways on the property that they own. I know a law was passed to change this, but it was only for new HOA's and the old ones would keep this unneeded power.

Here in Buckeye, AZ, the local police came to an HOA meeting to discuss the issue with overnight parking on HOA roads. Surprisingly, the HOA had the authority to dictate what roads could and couldn't be used as overnight parking, and the police would have to ticket and tow at their request.

So if some of these communities in Litchfield Park operate under something governing body like the HOA, then it is possible that the city has some sort of agreement with this governing body and authorized them to place the private road signs as per their request.

Looks like I'll have to dig into the Litchfield Park website and see if I can find any traffic doc's mentioning this. If not, then it's the harder task of searching for a governing body that controls that area.
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Re: No through traffic

Postby Fredo-p » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:38 am

Working a UR, I found a gated community and tried to apply the "no thru-traffic" principle as this gated community wasn't mapped at all.

Could you guys check it out and see how I did? Marked red are the gates to the community.
https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-112.04551&lat=33.48795&zoom=6&layers=1925&env=usa
gated community example_v1.jpg
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Re: No through traffic

Postby CBenson » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:16 am

Why the parking lot roads?
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Re: No through traffic

Postby Fredo-p » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:07 am

CBenson wrote:Why the parking lot roads?

Sorry, its not a gated community but a gated complex/condos. Those are all parking spots and don't have named roads. So I was under the impression that they would labeled as PLR's.

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Re: No through traffic

Postby CBenson » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:50 pm

driving79 wrote:We have tons and tons of these in Florida, especially Orlando or the nicer areas, where entire neighborhoods which would be great to cut through, are not allowed. If you mark all the streets inside these as all private, it does not route you back out of it correctly. The only way we have had 100% success is with the private in, street out.

Fredo-p wrote:Sorry, its not a gated community but a gated complex/condos. Those are all parking spots and don't have named roads. So I was under the impression that they would labeled as PLR's.

I don't know all the problems that might arise routing from entire areas of private road segment, but those that I'm aware of apply equally to areas of parking lot segments. Waze is designed to not route through parking lots in the same way it is designed to not route through private areas. If an area is mapped with parking lot segments, then I don't think anything else should be done to prevent through routing.
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Re: No through traffic

Postby qwaletee » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:01 pm

CBenson, I don't think they are referring to through routing. Rather, they're talking about problems with internal routing and routing out.
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Re: No through traffic

Postby CBenson » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:44 pm

Since the change to the current operation where the penalty is applied to the transition from (it is from right? I get this backwards all the time) a private road or parking lot segment to another segment, I have not seen any internal routing issues.

Regarding routing from an area of parking lot segments, I am aware of two issues. First if there are two adjacent areas that should not be routed through and they are separated only by a single street then they may connect at the junctions on the street. In that case no penalty is applied going from one to the other. For instance if routing from Jennifer Rd to Bestgate Rd here, waze doesn't route through the mall roads. However, if you route from the parking lot across Jennifer Rd, waze will route through the mall. This is because you are already on parking lot roads and there is no transition crossing Jennifer Rd to another road type, so the exit penalty is the same to exit the parking lot roads at Jennifer or at Bestgate. This can be solved by adding short street stubs at the entrances, which essentially is what you do if you split the road and have a private road segment entering and a street segment exiting. Such methods force the transition penalty to be applied when passing from one adjacent no through routing area to another.

The second issue is that waze doesn't apply the penalty to exit a parking lot road segment to the segment that you start on. Thus, if the starting segment connects to a non-parking lot segment and there is a route to the destination through that non-parking lot segment, then waze will take that route even if there is a faster route exiting the parking lot at some other segment. Thus, if you start on an entrance road that connects to Jennifer Rd and route to Bestgate, waze will route you around the parking lot rather than through the parking lot.

I have not personally seen these issues with areas of private road segments, but am guessing that the same issues exist with private road segments.
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Re: No through traffic

Postby qwaletee » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:51 pm

There's been some buzz o the "Routing and TTS" Google Hangout that indicates things are broken, but not enough specifics for me to comment further. Nick, Otto, HavanaDay know more.
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Re: No through traffic

Postby CBenson » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:56 pm

I don't know if you are reacting specifically to my routes in the post above or not. But if so be aware that waze has routed like this since at least last November.
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