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No through traffic

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:24 pm
by kentsmith9
I believe we have discussed this topic in the forums in the past, but I just did some searching on this topic, and did not find anything. specific yet.

I was discussing how to map roads in a neighborhood when there are posted signs for "No Thru Traffic" or "No Through Traffic" in two other threads recently (one and two). I was referencing the [[Private Installations]] wiki page as the source of guidance and it was brought to my attention that there was nothing in the text to suggest it would work for normal city streets where through traffic was needing restriction for the Waze routing server.

First I am looking for feedback from others who have successfully used the Private Installation guidance for public streets in restricting through traffic.

From there I would like to recommend that we add some content around public roads that would require a similar setup. We can alternately (or also) create a page on "No through traffic" and discuss how it uses the same layout as a private installation. I think either one would work.

Re: No through traffic

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:20 pm
by CBenson
I have always thought they should be treated the same. I think the definition of smaller installation should include areas where through traffic is prohibited. I don't see why the private installation or community definition can't state:
"The smallest example may be a single private community street protected by a gate or 'No Thru Traffic' sign."

Re: No through traffic

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:36 pm
by davielde
CBenson wrote:I don't see why the private installation or community definition can't state:
"The smallest example may be a single private community street protected by a gate or 'No Thru Traffic' sign."

I have used Private Road successfully for one segment where the sign is present for no Thru Traffic or "Local Traffic Only", etc.

Another instance where I have used it two or three times is where there have been no signs, but URs have complained about Waze finding a shortcut, but local police regularly monitor the street for people "avoiding the light" at a main intersection. If this is an acceptable use of "Private Road", then it may merit a separate page outside of Private Installations specifically geared toward smaller applications.

Re: No through traffic

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:45 pm
by DwarfLord
If I understand the implementation of "Private Road" it is in fact defined as no thru traffic. Thus the primary use would be for neighborhoods closed to thru traffic, and use for private installations would be a special case!


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Re: No through traffic

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:16 pm
by ottonomy
I am in complete agreement with the general idea of using Private segments, individually or in groups, to discourage routing through areas specifically signed with prohibitions against through traffic. In other words, I support this, and I am in wholehearted accord with the use of a Private segment in the first example which Kent cited.

I would, however, very much like to solicit your opinions as to the specific case here, the second example thread in Kent's opening post. This is a group of 14 residential blocks which have unrestricted, unsigned, and undiscouraged traffic access from all directions at all surrounding intersections, but one, where there is a freeway off-ramp which points directly into one of those residential streets. The sign there faces the off-ramp, and can not be seen on the approach from any other direction, until a (legal) turn onto that street is already in process). I do not believe that such a situation warrants the use of Private on the entire group of blocks. The sign is there to prevent freeway traffic from flooding those streets, not to prevent traffic from using any of the rest of them from providing cross-routes between the surrounding boulevards.

Re: No through traffic

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:55 am
by Fredo-p
So, would all of the roads associated with a "no thru" community have to be set as private road? Or, could you only set the access streets as private and, depending on the type of location, (gated community), make the rest parking lot roads?

Re: No through traffic

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:14 am
by qwaletee
Fredo, there is never any need to set the entrance streets to private and the other streets to PLR. They are effectively the same thing. You either set everything to private, or set the entering segments to private and the rest to regular street. Note that the latter also has the advantage that if there is a PLR within the community, that you can gain normal PLR through avoidance with this setup, whereas if all the streets are PLR or private, Waze will treat the true PLRs as Just Another Street in the Grid.

Re: No through traffic

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:47 am
by vectorspace
This is an interesting topic...

I did a little research about this and it seems that these signs are not always enforceable, yet there is likely wide variation in different cities and jurisdictions. Some argue that it is fundamentally illegal to post such signs because the roads they "protect" are public. In many cases they seem to try to protect a residential area as a shortcut from rush-hour traffic or the like. In any case, once a cop writes a ticket, the pain starts one way or another even if you get out of the fine.

I know that in Albuquerque they solved this issue with more expensive means, by putting in small traffic circles in or barriers to through traffic... only right turns allowed due to blocked straight through access.

I am certainly for using private roads or expanding the Private Installation page with a "No Through Traffic" section but think that a deeper explanation of what you're trying to accomplish might be needed. Some of these "No Through Traffic" areas may be more one-way prohibited flow of through traffic. Putting in too many private roads might hinder traffic that is legal. If it is a single street, then it is easy -- just make it a private road. If it is a whole residential area, there might be side effects. Some of these may also better handled by time-controlled turn restrictions.

Do we have a small set of use cases that could be conveyed?

Re: No through traffic

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:51 am
by kentsmith9
ottonomy wrote:I would, however, very much like to solicit your opinions as to the specific case here, the second example thread in Kent's opening post. This is a group of 14 residential blocks which have unrestricted, unsigned, and undiscouraged traffic access from all directions at all surrounding intersections, but one, where there is a freeway off-ramp which points directly into one of those residential streets. The sign there faces the off-ramp, and can not be seen on the approach from any other direction, until a (legal) turn onto that street is already in process). I do not believe that such a situation warrants the use of Private on the entire group of blocks. The sign is there to prevent freeway traffic from flooding those streets, not to prevent traffic from using any of the rest of them from providing cross-routes between the surrounding boulevards.

This image is taken from the far side of the cross street, not the ramp.
NoThroughTraffic 2.png
(541.06 KiB) Downloaded 1571 times

You can see the right turn onto that road is highly restricted to further make turning right onto that street very difficult.

City traffic planners are always struggling with controlling the direction of traffic to the roads they intend. It is clear that the exit from the freeway has become a problem for the local residents of that neighborhood. There are no other signs on the other roads into that neighborhoods simply because no traffic is coming from those directions. By setting the roads as private we allow Waze to route only local traffic onto those roads marked as private. Typically in a small installation you either mark the roads a the periphery, or you mark them all in that area.

The only down side to that technique is that vehicles on the two main side roads that parallel Matteson will not be routed straight across through the middle of the neighborhood, but will be forced to be routed to the main roads on the perimeter.

Re: No through traffic

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:22 am
by Fredo-p
I just remembered a UR about this exact thing. A road lead to a roundabout. A sign was posted that said not a thru-street, private road for community only. This was the back of the community. Yet, when you looked at the north side (main access) from the main roads, there was no sign that stated it was private streets.

Looking for that exact area so I can link it here.