[Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:55 pm

FYI, Waze is proposing, and it is currently as such in the beta editor as of today, that u-turns on dead ends cannot be edited. We don't yet know whether this means enabled/restricted, or whatever was set when that feature was removed, etc. Very little data available. Just thought I should throw a heads-up.
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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby arturoae » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:04 pm

Sonthe thing is: leave the u arrows ON. Maybe some day we will use them? (Waze routing and tts)?? But we still don't?? Or I'm understanding wrong?


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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby CBenson » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:25 am

There is a UR here for the old route to a enabled U-turn at the end of a dead end road to reverse direction problem.
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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby CBenson » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:38 pm

If I understand correctly, what is being said is that Ottonomy's observation from July of
ottonomy wrote:First, there is no doubt that Waze does occasionally include U-turns at the ends of single two-way segments in its routing, when the turns are enabled in WME, and it has a compelling reason to do so. It seems to me almost as if there is some light penalty attached to this, because of the relative rarity of the occurrences.
is now said to be obsolete. We are under the impression that waze has adjusted the routing (possibly the small detour mechanism) to prevent U-turns. So now we can enable U-turns in the editor.

I have reservations. Ottonomy goes on to note:
ottonomy wrote:U-turns under other conditions are more frequent for me. Not common, but not exactly rare. I speculated in my previous post that Waze may assess a penalty when considering a U-turn (on an un-split road), such that the routing server will consider other options first. Let me explain what makes me think this. The likelihood that I will be given a U-turn in my route goes up exponentially with the heaviness of the traffic around me. I never get them when driving in the late evening, or in more remote, less crowded areas.

Between 4 and 6PM, there are parts of LA where streets in close proximity to the freeways become so gridlocked that it can literally take 15 to 30 minutes to traverse a single city block, and it's times and places like these when Waze is most likely to throw me a U-turn, rather than sending me around the block, like it usually would. in other words, instances which might overcome penalties.
If the penalties for routing U-turns when enabled in the editor are not sufficient to prevent U-turns (or if the real-time server fails implements a lesser penalty or applies no penalty) then I think we will be causing problems by enabling U-turns prior to the proper addition of a U-turn instruction to the routing instructions.

sketch wrote:U turns should not be seen at all in routes. If it happens, staff wants to know. Staff wishes, last I heard, are that we leave U turns enabled as they should be, and to report them to staff if they are used despite the massive penalty that's supposed to make them not be given.

I am willing to agree to the change to the guidance based on this staff recommendation. However, if we do see U-turns, let waze know, and the response is - oh waze will route through U-turns to avoid heavy traffic, then I will want to change the guidance back.
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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby CBenson » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:57 pm

sketch wrote:So maybe it's a real time vs. normal routing server problem.

If that is the case, then we need to edit for the real time server routing. As far as I can tell the normal routing server adds additional penalties that do not seem to be taken into account for real time routing. Thus the detour prevention mechanisms and the u-turn prevention mechanism for split roads (the 15m U-turn prevention) seem not to apply to real time routing. This difference between real-time routing and "normal" routing is becoming a significant problem. If the real-time routing server will route off and back on the highway, then we should keep all the turn restrictions we used to prevent that bad routing. If the 15m U-turn rule doesn't prevent the real-time routing server from routing through illegal U-turns, then we should use other methods to prevent routing through such U-turns. If the penalty to prevent U-turns back to the same segment is different between the "normal" routing server and the real-time server and disabling U-turns prevents U-turns on the real-time server, then we should be disabling U-turns.
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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby CBenson » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:19 pm

I agree. I don't understand why there is a difference from a user routing perspective. But I've yet to hear anyone from waze state that this needs to happen.
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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby CBenson » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:30 pm

voludu2 wrote:
stephenr1966 wrote:"normal routing server" = server that computes your route when first ask for navigation.

"real-time server" = server that (re) calculates your route due to deviations or real-time impending traffic.

It is probably actually the same server (or server farm)...but, different algorithms with different applications of the penalties.

Subtle. Complicated.

And deceiving. The idea that we are told about features of the routing algorithm, which we then rely on to prevent impossible or illegal routes, but then turn out to be features in only one (or some - see reference to a long route server) of a set of algorithms on different "servers" is a problem. It is particularly difficult to find out what issues there are with the "real time" routing because there is no way to trigger it in testing. Thus an odd route in a UR that we can't reproduce, may well be caused by the "real time" server providing a route that is calculated not only based on different timing data but using different routing rules than the rules applied when we ask for a route in the app or the live map.
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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby coontex » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:06 pm

What is going on with the dead end uturns. I have been out fro a while but i see that you can not select the uturn at a dead end street anymore.
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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby coontex » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:45 am

DwarfLord wrote:There's a fair bit of discussion on it in the WME v1.6 release - (v169) release thread.


Thanks for the information. I have been gone for a week or so with internet that was to slow to be able to access the map or forums. Trying to get caught up.


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Re: [Clarify/Update Page] U-turn policy?

Postby davielde » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:38 am

If it's a divided highway that's split in Waze, enabling the normal turns for the median crossovers or intersections handles the u-turns, so the Waze U should still be disabled. For divided highways that are not split roads in Waze, enabling the Waze U should still be discouraged at this time because it's not just the voice instructions but all instructions that are off. Perhaps that should factor into someone's decision to split a road.

As an example, you would not be doing users a favor to have the following behavior on any road, not simply a divided highway that's not split in Waze. As seen in the screenshot, the next turn is in three miles--behind you...?

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