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Post by ottonomy
redviper26 wrote:Hey guys,

Can you send permalinks of routes affected by this issue?

Thanks,

Noam
Hi Noam,

Are you referring to occurrences of dead-end U-turns being used in routing as turn-arounds, or the separate issue we've been discussing here about U-turns on two-way segments displaying misleading prompts (for the next turn, rather than for the U)?

Thanks,

Otto
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Post by ottonomy
I would say that in recent months, the only two-way segment U-turns I've seen (or heard reported) have been upon route recalculations, which backs up the idea that Waze has effectively penalized them out of the usual routing server options. Having said that, one of the reasons I may be seeing SO few U-turns lately is the simple fact that almost ALL of them have been disabled in greater Los Angeles. When the time comes that Waze supports these, I will happily make it part of my routine to allow the U's where appropriate. I don't mind the general guidance being permissive on enabling U-turns, but some kind of a clause suggesting that in urban areas there should be consultation with local AMs before actively enabling U-turns would be much appreciated by me.
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Post by PesachZ
dmcrandall wrote:Ran into a UR about Waze directing a driver into a dead end street to make a U-turn. I closed it before remembering this thread (courtesy of Otto).

Here's the link to the UR. Hopefully you can get something from it before it closes out completely.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... st=3910028
This thread is specifically discussion the penalty preventing u-turns as they apply to 3 segment u-turns on divided roads.

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Post by purposeguy
FYI, I was routed down a dead end street with a U-turn at the end two days ago. I'm running a V3.7.8.0 client. There was no U-turn symbol on the screen and no voice prompt for a turn at the end of the street. It was definitely looking ahead to the next turn.
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Post by purposeguy
I think the issue is the very complex problem that this thread is about, and can't be solved by a local editor! Sadly, it was in the middle of a long and complex drive, so I can't remember the specific street. Unless there's a way for Waze to show me my steps from a specific, historical journey precisely.
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Post by purposeguy
Yeah, this really bummed me out, too. I had started allowing U-turns in my neighborhood when I caught wind of what was going on in the forums. I've since been "on patrol," removing U-turns wherever I find them. I look forward to U-turns being implemented in the client, since they are legal by default throughout California.
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Post by qwaletee
I bit that bullet a long time ago. I probably put confirmed/denied hundreds of U-turns, and then set them all back to denied.

Funny, I interpreted the "Waze will consider U-turns..." to mean that the server will spend time examining them, but then treat them as costly or s/t like that to prevent them actually getting used. I can't for teh life of me understand the policy -- either Waze NEVER gives a U-turn instruction because it can't, in which case, why all the fuss about making sure they are all disabled? Or, Waze CAN give such an instruction, but rarely does (never seen it documented), in which case, why aren't we setting them up correctly?

This business f "to prevent driver confusion" is Just Plain Wrong. If Waze can't give the instruction, it can't confuse the driver. If Waze can give the instruction, it cna't confuse the driver.

The only possibilities that make sense are:

1) Waze can give some on-screen indication of U-turn that is inconsistent with voice and/or some other part of the on-screen route description. That oculd in fact cause driver confusion.

2) Has nothing to do with drivers, Waze just simply doesn't want the routing server to waste time examining a U-turn that it will ultimately not use.
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Post by redviper26
Hey guys,

Can you send permalinks of routes affected by this issue?

Thanks,

Noam
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Post by sketch
When U turns are actually given

It seems rare. According to staff, the old problem where dead-end U turns used to be used erroneously shouldn't occur anymore, because of the small detour prevention mechanism, implemented early 2014. I haven't seen an example of it since then, so maybe it is actually working for this particular case.

Aside from the dead-end problem which I experienced only once, I have only ever seen U turns given by the routing server after getting off the freeway in a rural area, with no viable way to turn around using roads. Example: screenshot below.

The screenshots uploaded by davielde and ottonomy

When did those occur? Because something has changed. It used to do this:



No TTS instruction, but it did have the instruction on screen, at least.

The future of U turns, according to Waze

Proper U turn support is coming at some point, but when? Who knows.

Bowties

I am of the opinion that bowties should never be used where U turns are permitted. "Turn left on [x]" is utterly confusing when what you have to actually do is make a U turn. The entire reason bowties exist is to prevent U turns. Keep the road split like normal so it can say "Turn left on [y] then turn left on [x]".

What should the guidance be?

I would support enabling U turns only on actually-divided highways that are not divided ("split") in Waze, for the time being. In my experience, it only happens very rarely, so I don't think it'll cause a whole lot of confusion. After all, if the driver just drives past that point, they'll get a recalculation. If it gives them another U turn after that, they'll probably figure it out.
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