Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Moderator: Unholy

Re: Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:16 am

DwarfLord wrote:How they behave if completely unconnected, I haven't checked. If they were as bad as Alan's tests from a few months ago suggested, I would have thought we'd have URs everywhere by now. So I'm lost as to just how dangerous the disconnected ones are.

I have dealt with URs within the past week or so where unconnected walking trails caused routing issues. For the trail I typically test, I get the same results I have for a while. This route is effected by the walking trail. If you move the destination pin up near Ashcroft Ct, but still nearer to the trail, then waze can't return a route at all. What has changed for me is how waze routes to Google address results in the client, making this issue much more difficult to reproduce in the client. There are much fewer circumstances where waze is simply routing to the closest segment it can find.
CBenson
 
Posts: 10330
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 2356 times

Re: Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Postby DwarfLord » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:33 am

sketch wrote:I would leave them alone unless they are actually causing problems. My guess is they're acting like railroads act now, and are essentially invisible to the routing server. My opinion is that they look quite nice :D

I verified today that Waze will still route vehicles over connected walking paths. So if they are connected they are definitely not invisible; in my test, Waze routed me from a street over a connected walking path and thence onto a connected parking-lot road.

How they behave if completely unconnected, I haven't checked. If they were as bad as Alan's tests from a few months ago suggested, I would have thought we'd have URs everywhere by now. So I'm lost as to just how dangerous the disconnected ones are.
DwarfLord
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California USA
Has thanked: 911 times
Been thanked: 1193 times

Re: Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Postby sketch » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:25 am

I would leave them alone unless they are actually causing problems. My guess is they're acting like railroads act now, and are essentially invisible to the routing server. My opinion is that they look quite nice :D
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 6100
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1557 times
Been thanked: 2105 times

Re: Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:22 pm

As far as I know, our guidance still says that Walking Trails that do not somehow improve routing for drivers are strongly discouraged.

But, Waze has that nice "Walking Trail" street type, and we have lots, and lots, and lots of new editors who don't spend much time with the Wiki or forums and are looking for something to contribute. I don't know about you all, but Walking Trails have been proliferating in my area and honestly I don't want to spend the energy involved in attempting to reach each and every one of their authors via PM. And then, quite possibly since so few of these folks check PMs, deleting a lot of someone's work. I hate deleting somebody's hard work just as much as they will probably hate seeing me do it.

But, walking trails that remain beget more walking trails, and more and more, as new editors see the existing examples and add their own. It's springtime for walking trails around here.

It would be different if these Walking Trails were obviously breaking things. But I have not been seeing URs pop up around them the way I would have expected if they really were so dangerous. And by current understanding they should be dangerous, as many are urban bike paths that come close to a multitude of destinations.

What do I do? Put on my walking-trail grinch hat and start PMing, answering questions, waiting, and eventually deleting, and find a good Waze therapist to help me through the guilt? Or limit the effort to disconnecting them where necessary, and accept that pretty soon we'll be covered in walking trails?
DwarfLord
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California USA
Has thanked: 911 times
Been thanked: 1193 times

Re: Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:36 pm

dougp01 wrote:I have had a similar problem and my search of the wiki brought me to this thread. I am now experimenting with a walking trail of my own. Interesting to note: Walking Trails are in the "Non-drivable" category, so I obviously assumed it would be safe to integrate into the regular mapping system.

In my case it is a small neighborhood park in an HOA which is accessible from three separate directions, by a walking trail only. All three walking trails are presently connected to the roads in the area. I originally set these up as Two-Way walking trails. The next day, I tested the route on my Waze app. To my surprise, Waze actually routed me through the park, which I cannot do in a car. https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... 24&env=usa

Today I changed each of the three trails to an unknown type and will check again later once the changes go live.

Once you select a direction, you cannot select the unknown type. Also unknown type does not stop routing, it is only used to identify to the routing server that no prior direction has been set.
Wiki on Unknown direction

In general we do not connect the non-drivable roads to drivable roads.
Wiki on non-drivable roads
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5550
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1477 times
Been thanked: 1689 times

Re: Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Postby dougp01 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:31 pm

I have had a similar problem and my search of the wiki brought me to this thread. I am now experimenting with a walking trail of my own. Interesting to note: Walking Trails are in the "Non-drivable" category, so I obviously assumed it would be safe to integrate into the regular mapping system.

In my case it is a small neighborhood park in an HOA which is accessible from three separate directions, by a walking trail only. All three walking trails are presently connected to the roads in the area. I originally set these up as Two-Way walking trails. The next day, I tested the route on my Waze app. To my surprise, Waze actually routed me through the park, which I cannot do in a car. https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... 24&env=usa

Today I changed each of the three trails to an unknown type and will check again later once the changes go live.

~Doug
dougp01
Map Raider
Map Raider
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:05 pm
Location: Larimer, Weld and parts of Boulder County Colorado USA
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Postby sketch » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:39 pm

I think the only thing that's changed is, if anything has changed, is the way Waze handles destinations on walking trails which are not connected to roads. When they are connected, Waze has always been able to bring you there via the walking trail, I believe. So the Roaring Camp setup should be fine – when it's a deliberate use like this, there shouldn't be a problem. The problem would arise when a long walking trail (like this one) was connected only at some faraway point.

If I had to guess, if Waze does make a change to those types, "walking trail" would be made unroutable like runways and railroads are, and "pedestrian boardwalk" would be kept routable for situations where a destination is legitimately on a pedestrian-only road. But that's just my guess, and just what I'd personally do. That'd allow us to represent things like the bike trail on the map without having to worry about routing, while allowing us also to have a type useful for situations like Roaring Camp and I guess Epcot.
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 6100
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1557 times
Been thanked: 2105 times

Re: Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:28 am

Thanks so much for gathering and posting the references to the disparate threads. It would be great to consolidate this into a wiki entry except everything appears so hopelessly inconclusive. I was not aware that the routing distortion discussed in the wiki is not dependable or even consistently reproducible in the same setting. And here I thought I could at least take advantage of that behavior. Yikes.

CBenson wrote:some failures to get any route still seem to occur when the route is near a long walking trail. If I try to route to 1820 Wiehle Ave, Reston, VA, I can't get a route in the live map as discussed here. But the client now routes me to a point on Wiehle Ave.

I see what you mean. But if I try from 1820 Wiehle Ave to 1820 Wiehle Ave I do get a route -- Live Map says it will be 4.11 miles on the Washington & Old Dominion Bike Trail, and those 4.11 miles will take me 0 minutes. That's some fast biking.
DwarfLord
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California USA
Has thanked: 911 times
Been thanked: 1193 times

Re: Road Types (USA) - Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:11 pm

I have not been able to figure out a consistent behavior for walking trails. Addresses I've tested sometimes route to the end of the trail, then don't, then do again. Waze has never to my knowledge really explained what is the intended behavior for walking trails.

This is very difficult for me to test, as address searches in general have recently changed for me. They now route to the street in the address for me in the client.

My standby test has been to 1600 Ritchie Hwy, Arnold, MD 21012 as discussed here. Currently due to waze actually using the street name as the destination, the client gives me a route to Ritchie Hwy even though both Baltimore Annapolis Blvd and the B & A Trail are closer to the pin. However, the live map routes some where near the end of the trail.

I don't see as many issues reported with walking trails anymore. But some failures to get any route still seem to occur when the route is near a long walking trail. If I try to route to 1820 Wiehle Ave, Reston, VA, I can't get a route in the live map as discussed here. But the client now routes me to a point on Wiehle Ave.

I think I remember that at one time waze stated that intended the routing to work like the diagram in the wiki. But I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it work that way. Rather, the routing (when the walking trail effects the routing) seems to be to some point near the end of the walking trail, regardless of whether other segments come close (or ever cross) the walking trail in the middle.

This walking trail behavior has been unpredictable. I know others have attempted to use it as you have to get good routing to parking lots without success. I wish we could predict the behavior of walking trails better and use them to some benefit.
CBenson
 
Posts: 10330
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 2356 times

Re: Color schemes thread

Postby PesachZ » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:46 am

DwarfLord wrote:
PesachZ wrote:I just heard back from staff regarding WT routing going to the closest end of the segment, and subsequently not routing appropriately when the destination is past the midpoint on a dead end trail.

It's a bug. We have a fix, now waiting for the next deployment. Thanks!

What about when a destination is past the midpoint on a segment connected at both ends? Will Waze route to minimize walking time at the expense of driving time, i.e. going the "long way around" in order to deposit the driver closer to the destination, even if the walk is only a few feet shorter? Or...?

I don't know how they plan to fix it, I hope the fix is to route to end node of the WT which is closer to your current location. However I fear the easier fix may surgically apply only to dead end trails. We'll have to see.

Sent from Android using Tapatalk
PesachZ
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:51 am
Location: NY, USA (also NJ sometimes) {GC} {ARC}
Has thanked: 1993 times
Been thanked: 2271 times

Previous

Return to Wiki Updates and Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider]