[Update] Road Names (USA) - City names

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Re: [Update] Road Names (USA) - City names

Postby sketch » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:43 pm

I changed the name of the thread to better reflect the content of the thread. I feel it would be a threadjack to come into this post and talk about a different aspect of the road names article, so it seems best to compartmentalize various discussions about different topics on the page.
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Re: [Update] Road Names (USA)

Postby ply8808 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:55 pm

CBenson has pointed to the main issues of this discussion and the complicated details to having a standard assigned.
There is a need for guidelines with an understanding that those will not satisfy all of the issues in routing at this time with the current tools available.
I will give the example of my location between 3 unincorporated towns and a small city, I live in a section of strip annex of that small city, any address I search must be scrutinized to insure the route is not taking me to another location that is not even close or in the right direction.
I have been able to place pins and house numbers in waze and move Google pins as each comes needed in my travels, but that would be a huge undertaking to try and isolate each and every location.
However, it would be great to know if the city names are creating the issues on routing for the inner city boundaries, whether alt or otherwise.
Maybe a test area......we have one in Phoenix that would be a good candidate :shock:
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Re: [Update] Road Names (USA)

Postby Fredo-p » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:46 pm

CBenson wrote:I'm not advocating the use of the Google data. Nor at this point suggesting that we correct everything in Google Mapmaker. However, its just a fact that waze uses the Google data so whether there is a match matters at this point.

Say there are two nearby towns of Greenville and Franklin and they both have a 2nd Ave. In Greenville the addresses on 2nd Ave run from 0-500. In Franklin they run from 600-1500.

What happens if you search for 101 2nd Ave, Franklin?
What if there is no 101 in Greenville?
What happens if Google has an incorrect pin in Franklin for house number 101?
What happens if you search for 101 Second Ave, Greenville?
What happens if Google has an alternate street name of Second listed for Franklin but not Greenville?
What happens if Greenville is not an incorporated town, say a CDP, and Franklin is a city?
What happens if the mailing addresses for Greenville use a ZIP code for Franklin?

I doubt we can solve all these issues even if waze does take into account alternate street names.


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: [Update] Road Names (USA)

Postby Fredo-p » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:41 pm

CBenson wrote:Another is does Google have a matching address or business in its data.


Yeah, but how accurate has Google been on its address pins for rural areas? God help the poor soul who wants to try and fix all the bad ones in their area and not have those a*hole map editors that deny everything. :evil:
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Re: [Update] Road Names (USA)

Postby Fredo-p » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:57 pm

I wonder as well. Taking my example, if a search for a business or address is on ABC Ave, but Small Town, yet ABC Ave has Large City as it's city name, how would it effect the routing vs having the other town as an alt?
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Re: [Update] Road Names (USA)

Postby Fredo-p » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:26 pm

Sad to see that the alt field causes issues with the routing. Also, I wasn't aware that many states have different practices on entering a city name for a road.

One simple option could be that if it has a zip code, its official. But checking state assessors office to verify a places name can also help too.

My concern are those roadways that travel along a municipalities border.

Example:
ABC Ave. travels E/W. For 10 miles, ABC ave has "Small Town" to the north and "Large City" to the south. When entering the data in the required fields, what would be name to go into the city block since this road runs along both?

My thought is that you pick one and enter the other as an alt. But if the alt is causing problems, then that would mean the alt field would require some clarification as to what should and shouldn't be placed in there.

Does the wiki on entering data into the road box contain text that states an editor should contact their local states forum for clarification on how to label roads properly?
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Re: [Update] Road Names (USA)

Postby Fredo-p » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:30 pm

On my phone right now but I do have a good suggestion/response to this issue.

It goes along with the new state template format.
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[Update] Road Names (USA) - City names

Postby Fredo-p » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:59 pm

I've been asked this question and can't seem to find the info on the wiki page.

Here is the question asked in our local Google hangouts convo:
Browsing the wiki... so, what's the official policy for "city" on street names? Based on city annexed area? based on mailing/zip code? based on City Planning


Can this information be clarified and also included in the Road Names (USA)?

I know, for roads that border city boundaries, using the same street name with the other municipality in the alt is one method of doing so. But it would be a good idea to include when the city name field should be left blank as well.
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Re: [Update] Road Names (USA)

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:39 pm

WME Validator flags any segment with a null alternate street name. Say you have a parking-lot road that is maybe in San Jose, maybe in Fruitdale, or both, who knows, so you add an alt with the other city but no street name. It gets flagged. I don't know how "bad" this is, whether Validator flags it just because it is bad practice or if something worse is involved.

Alt fields with the same street name but an alternate city -- I don't know if those affect routing or not. To me this practice seems excessive on principle. If in fact it doesn't improve routing then it seems like an awful lot of work for nothing. It'd be great to know if this practice has any benefit.
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Re: [Update] Road Names (USA)

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:41 pm

We could probably come up with a list of things that are NOT a city. That might be worthwhile. For example -- these are just brainstorming thoughts -- could we say:

  • If it doesn't have a post office, it's not a city?
  • If it's not listed as a Census Designated Place (CDP), it's not a city?
  • If it has no identifiable and distinct "downtown" it's not a city?
  • All of the above?

In my area we have a city Waze calls "Live Oak CDP". I've never heard a local refer to Live Oak, although there is a school district by that name. There is no Live Oak post office here, that is reserved for a real town called Live Oak around 200 miles away north of Yuba City. Being unincorporated and without anything resembling a "Live Oak town center" it is perilously close to being a "neighborhood" which we do not map in Waze (right?). Finally, even if it is a valid CDP, what is the acronym "CDP" doing in the City field? My leaning for this case would be to change it to "No city". But that would be a lot of work :mrgreen:

Fredo-p wrote:I know, for roads that border city boundaries, using the same street name with the other municipality in the alt is one method of doing so.

This wreaks havoc with Validator for parking lot roads and such that have no name. You get an alternate-name field that has a city but no street name. I've fixed a bunch of those...I'm not sure if the alternate-name field for these odd cases is really the best approach. More work to maintain them that's for sure.
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