Who is going to pay for this data that has already been collected? Plus the licensing issues, and who would own the data after its been updated etc?

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invented wrote:

jeff412 wrote:I drive a lot and not just a daily communte. Many times I am in unfamiliar areas. I have a Garmin GPS that has speed limit information on it. I use this information all the time. Speed limit info is one of my requirements when picking out a GPS. I don't need it for routing or traffic. I need it to prevent me from getting a speeding ticket. Once all of the routing issues are fixed with Waze, I want Speed Limit data. I will gladly help enter the information.


Jeff

Good news: the routing issues will never be fixed.

Lol. We stop fixing just before the last one!

With all due respect, why would we depend on Waze for something we can (and should) do as drivers: pay attention to the road. The whole purpose of Waze is to supplement us with tools we cannot ascertain on our own (traffic jams, better routes, etc.). I understand those who mentioned that some roads are poorly marked, but as Alan said earlier: if drivers cannot determine the speed, how can we expect it to get into Waze?

I can understand why Waze might be reluctant to include speed limits and over limit warnings as options. However, other apps include these and the TOS includes a disclaimer as to accuracy to which the user must agree. This seems like a good solution to me.

An oft heard argument against it is something like, "If you don't speed you don't need to worry about it." That makes sense, except that in many areas speed limits have been changed arbitrarily in order to increase traffic fine revenue. To me, this makes a mockery of the notion that speed limits are sensible and reasonable. Municipalities are strapped for cash and an abrupt speed limit change from say, 45 mph to 30 mph, is guaranteed to produce lots of tickets. So a little beep reminding me that the speed limit has changed is most welcome.

I am sure we can all think of examples of nearby communities that have really been aggressive in this regard. For example in the Portland area, the suburb of Milwaukie is recognized by many for its gratuitous speed limit changes and placement so that its ticket vans can maximize their "haul." Sad but true is the observation that citizens need all the help we can get to protect ourselves from predatory local governmental regulations.

invented wrote:

gkpdx wrote:So a little beep reminding me that the speed limit has changed is most welcome.

Are you volunteering to make all the timely speed limit parameter changes to all segments across the world? Else, how would this database stay up-to-date? We already have whole towns that are still crap basemap road data, let alone lacking speed limit data.

In regards to volunteering, I assume you were being sarcastic. Or are you really saying that if I don't volunteer then the database would not stay up to date? Are you a volunteer for Waze? Is there a job opening? In any case, the data does exist in a form that is updated often enough. It was compiled through some kind of human effort and I suspect people were paid for their efforts. This data is being used to good effect by your competitors on behalf of their happy customers. Perhaps more to the point, I was arguing philosophy, while you are arguing logistics. So if you first agree to the idea, questions of execution follow. In that regard, I would remind you that if you argue for your limitations, then sure enough, they are yours.

xteejx wrote:Who is going to pay for this data that has already been collected? Plus the licensing issues, and who would own the data after its been updated etc?

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Suppose another company owns rights to a suitable dataset, is willing to license it and wants money. Then the clever negotiating initiative may be to use Waze’ rapidly growing user base and its unique, easy and fun, user-driven update model to arrive at a mutually beneficial ongoing agreement that would produce a "best in class" feature for both companies.

geoffb wrote:With all due respect, why would we depend on Waze for something we can (and should) do as drivers: pay attention to the road. The whole purpose of Waze is to supplement us with tools we cannot ascertain on our own (traffic jams, better routes, etc.). I understand those who mentioned that some roads are poorly marked, but as Alan said earlier: if drivers cannot determine the speed, how can we expect it to get into Waze?

If all drivers behaved like they should, there would be no need to report speed traps or police either. A driver should also be able to recognize dangers on the road and react appropriately without using a smartphone. If we all behaved the way we should, we could remove all the reporting stuff from waze except for traffic jams.
However all the things we can report make it easier for drivers to be aware of the current situation and upcoming situations and so would speed limit indications.
Entering a freeway you have to watch traffic ahaed, traffic from behind, traffic on the left, direction signs (when driving in unfamiliar areas) and speed limit sign. The latter have the least priority for me. It has happend to me, that made my way onto the freeway, watching my front window, my mirrors and over my shoulder, but had totally missed the limit sign. "Stick with the surrounding traffic" is a nice advice. Usually 33% drive slower than the limit (e.g. trucks), 33% ignore the limt and the remaining 33% obey to it. Can be hard to tell who is who sometimes.
Where does the data come from, when drivers fail to realize the speed limit? Well, driving in unfamiliar areas Waze tells me the right way to go although I don't know jack about turn restrictions, driving directions, etc. Where does that data come from? Guess there's someone who does know...

Concerning the "other GPS navsets use speed limits for eta calculation" argument: The ones I know use the lower value of average speeds based on road type (fixed values for each type of road) and speed limit. So when you are able to always drive the maximum allowed speed, you'll arrive sooner than expected. Waze does not need that because it has "live averages". Still, indicatiting speed limits would be a helpful feature for above reasons.

Gordonski

invented wrote:

xteejx wrote:Again, that's not what is being said here. ALERTS ONLY!

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Why bother? Read the speed limit signs. It's yet another parameter on every road that one will have to research, input, and maintain.

Why bother street names? Read the street name signs. It's yet another parameter on every road that one will have to research, input, and maintain.

Edit: Whoops, did I just say that out loud? Putting on my helmet and bullet-proof vest in anticipation of replies...

i currently use [name of GPS system], as it has speed limits...

Other GPS systems have speed limits because that's their only speed data. Using this data (assuming it is correct and complete), they give you the best route--under the assumption you are able to, and will, drive at the speed limit on every road in your route. They do not take into account that prevailing traffic may normally be 15mph above the speed limit, or that there is gridlock around a certain highway exit at certain times of day. Since speed limit data is their only option, they must gather it (and have already done so), at which point displaying it on their device, issuing warnings upon exceeding it by a certain amount, etc. requires very little additional investment.

Waze does not require speed limit data in order to work. It gathers real-world data that does reflect actual, typical speeds at various times of day. So, given a map network that is connected properly and has sufficient speed data gathered, Waze will give a real-world ETA, and will suggest routes that account for typical road speeds at the current time of day. So for Waze, the additional effort of gathering, incorporating and maintaining speed limit data--solely to provide some minor niceties that other GPS products offer--makes little sense.

realc4ever wrote:People desire speed limits in waze so they dont speed on the road they are on if the speed limit is unknown. No one wants waze to base its' navigation on the posted speed limit.

Since Waze has no need to accumulate, store and maintain speed limit data, it is unlikely that they are going to undertake that considerable task, solely to support one or two features that would be "nice to have".

perhaps waze could make an option in the client to display the average road speed in place of the speedometer and that would be a quick fix for those of us desiring speed limits.

That too has been suggested. Unfortunately, it's both useless and misleading for those who want this feature to help them stay within the actual speed limit. (Each time someone is ticketed for speeding while driving according to the average speed, it will be "Waze's fault".)