Vehicle types/ Navigation types

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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:02 am

Special modes for emergency personnel sound great, but how do you determine if someone is really supposed to have access to it? It's one thing if you can't do anything special beyond perhaps seeing additional information. It's something else to be able to do something not normally allowed, such as blocking off an entire section of streets (something that could be severely abused). If there's a good way to give emergency personnel what they can use without it becoming a problem, then I'm all for it.

Regarding the initial question about being able to see where the emergency is on a divided road, I wonder if there can just be a note on the hazard that says what direction the road is going? It doesn't have to be a perfect mechanism, but basically 8 cardinal directions. N, S, E, W, NW, SW, NE, SE. It can be based solely on the direction of travel at that exact point and determined by the angle of the road at that point and whether it's on the right or left side of the road (different countries need to of course handle it differently depending on which side the cars drive on). You could probably get by with 4 directions instead of 8, but it could be confusing if you're right at a center division. That could be tested to see if it's a problem or not. If not, I'd just use the 4 major directions.

E.g.
Minor accident
Main St (westbound)
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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:18 pm

goimir wrote:Now that I've done some map editing, here's an idea for "truck mode"

Favor major roads. Don't use a road of a lower classification to get between two of a higher classification.

Also, maybe this belongs in the map editing forum, and maybe it's already addressed in the wiki, but there are lots of alleys given the same weight as actual streets. There are some alleys in Pittsburgh that are all of 10 feet wide. They're meant for wheeling your garbage can into and maybe dropping your groceries at the back door.


Similar to your suggestion about truck routes, I think having a routing option of "fewer turns" would be of benefit not just to cars, but especially to trucks as they probably don't like having to make a lot of turns if they can avoid it. Someone suggesting a slider option for choosing what kind of routing to use and I think that's a good option. With the current 2 options and then a fewer turns option, you would have 3 sliders that are locked to equal 100% so that if you move one, the others adjust with it so the total is always 100%. If you wanted to have fewer turns and still wanted fast, but didn't care at all about distance, you might adjust them to 50/50/0 and it would find a route that is fast with few turns, no matter the distance.

And you're right about some alleys being very narrow. That really isn't limited only to alleys, though. For example, some old underpasses can't easily be navigated by vehicles from both directions at the same time. A narrow road option that could be applied to a segment may be valuable and could even be set to automatically place a warning icon as you come up to it. From what I hear, they are shrinking the width of parking lot roads, so they could do the same for any segment marked as narrow so it's also visual. I'd limit such an option to not allow it on major highways or freeways. Probably also prevent it on minor highways as well, but that depends on whether or not you can find narrow sections on minor highways.
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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:14 am

That would be where you'd select fewer turns + fastest, without regard to distance. In most cases, that would take you down the highway instead of through a town. I'm sure there could be some tweaking to make it work in at least most situations and each user can choose how to use it. If someone wanted just 100% fastest (the checkbox setting we have now), they could still do that. I think this would just add more options for those who could use some more options in how it calculates the route.
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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:43 am

Yeah, I support biking and walking options that don't contribute speed data. From the Google acquisition, biking is coming, so chances are that walking will also. I can see GPS marks in local parks already where there aren't any roads.
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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:58 pm

Gas Savings (or an Economy Route) would be great for many users. Unfortunately, that's not really possible without a lot of work. Yes, you can limit turns, but that's about all. Because there aren't stop lights or stop signs shown, you don't really get any indication whether you are stopping or just driving slowly through that section of road into the next. So you can't really determine how economical it is. Also, there isn't any way to indicate hills and grade of hills to determine what is most economical.

So although that would be a great feature, I don't see it ever happening. However, we can provide a least turns routing option fairly easily and that would at least help some people at least a little. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I think if we add another option like that, we should consider a set of sliders with a 100% maximum to help indicate what you prefer. People might prefer few turns, but aren't willing to drive 2-3 times further or longer to avoid a few turns. Having the slider would let us set something like - 50% time, 0% distance, 50% turns. In that case, you care equally about time and turns, but don't care at all about distance. So routing will allow you to drive any distance, but will equally limit time and turns. That would take some work to get working well, but I think it would be a good option to provide good control over how you are routed.
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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:01 pm

Lol. Well, there are a few options. 1) Allow those modes for everyone and not treat them as anything special, 2) Don't add those moods at all, or 3) Add the moods, but require some special flag to use them. A special flag would require that emergency services who want to make use of those moods would need to request a flag to be added to their employees so they can use the moods but no one else can. The biggest problem there is that the emergency services would have to want their employees to use Waze and to use those moods in order to get support from them for something like that. In the US, I don't really see that happening, though maybe I'm wrong.
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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:25 pm

I agree about where you are likely to see the interest and where you are not likely to see it. And the suggestion of having the champs manage that is a good idea if they'd be willing. Of course, that would all depend on Waze being willing to implement it in the first place.

Having separate routing, real-time map positions, etc. could definitely be valuable, but would require significantly more work. But it does open some possibilities such as notifying ERVs of accidents or other issues directly. The issue there is accuracy. Would they be willing to trust that over a phone call? Not everywhere has 911 and not everyone probably has the phone number(s) for emergencies with them on the road, so calling isn't always an option. But when you call, you are providing information that can be acted on if you file an invalid report (at least in the US). If it's sent from Waze, will Waze need to send your phone number with the report so they know how to find someone who is entering invalid reports? With that issue, I'm not sure if it would ever be accepted, but there may be countries that are more willing to accept that kind of thing.

And I see similar value for other services such as tow trucks. Not everywhere will tow a broken down vehicle right away (I've seen broken down vehicles on state highways in MA for 1-2 weeks before being removed), but others don't allow them to sit there more than 24 hours. For such locations, marking it on the map lets towing companies know where to go to pick the vehicles up. You still run into issues with people marking things that aren't there, though.

There are just so many possibilities if you can work out the kinks. But whether or not there is interest and whether or not the problems can be worked out satisfactorily is the question.
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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:46 pm

If a road isn't allowed for normal traffic, it generally shouldn't be added (at least, not connected to the main roads). I'm not sure if there is something different in the Netherlands, but that seems to be pretty standard everywhere. Adding routes that normal drivers can't use can lead to routing problems for those drivers. And at this time, those are the people Waze is catering to. Eventually, Waze will start adding other methods of transportation that can include such special routes. Until then, they are probably not a good idea to add.
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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:38 pm

I believe the vehicle type authorization for roads is in beta now, though it is currently only going to be in the editor. They'll probably make is usable from the client once enough data is added in the editor to make it actually work.

I know pedestrian and bicycles are planned, but that will likely be a while down the road.
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Re: Vehicle types/ Navigation types

Postby Riamus » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:56 am

Champs or high level editors have been commenting on it. That along with the time based turn restrictions are vehicle restrictions.

Or if you're asking about pedestrians and bicycles, Waze staff mentioned it in their post about the Google acquisition.
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