How about adding Traffic Lights/Signals

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Re: How about adding Traffic Lights/Signals

Postby unwallflower » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:58 pm

Yeah. I mean, it's a neat idea... but I just don't see the point. I don't see this making a difference to navigation, I think it would just overcomplicate things.
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Re: How about adding Traffic Lights/Signals

Postby unwallflower » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:36 am

briandb1222 wrote:It would not destroy...all intersections are the same. You can either turn left or right, sometimes though, there is the odd intersection, but that's not very often, and it wouldn't mess anything up. The only difference is, the voice routing would go "At the next traffic light, turn left.' Here in the USA, we typically have 4 lights, sometimes 5...sometimes.

I don't know why you would want to add 15 traffic lights to an intersection anyways. You'd just need one light per intersection and it would apply to all streets that connect (or even, you could be able to set which streets the light doesn't effect).


No. All intersections are NOT the same, not even close. What about H type intersections? What about the intersections that look like "#"?

How would you suggest using traffic lights on THOSE intersections? It wouldn't work. It would be a complete nightmare.
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Re: How about adding Traffic Lights/Signals

Postby waynemcdougall » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:26 am

jvdmeer wrote:I hear all new positive things about Waze, but where are all these characteristics mentioned?
I mean, I heard last week Waze uses .5 hour-blocks for avg speed determiniation. Now I hear Waze uses the average waiting time for different directions.

These are very good points, why don't you shout this from the rooftops? (literally translated from a dutch expression)

PS: What about someone mentioning on the forum, that there is a 5-sec penalty for each junction you pass?
PS: Is there an Wiki page (or an forum post) with all the rules used for routing?


Your wish is granted

http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/How_ ... tes_routes
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Re: How about adding Traffic Lights/Signals

Postby waynemcdougall » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:05 pm

jvdmeer wrote:@mizter6

you should've read the posting op fvwazing. He tells that waze uses a waitingtime that depends on the turn you're going to make.


I've seen no evidence that @fvwazing is correct on the details. The only evidence I've seen is that it is not working as he describes. But that may still be because Waze doesn't have enough information.

I think @fvwazing has the right idea - that Waze can detect traffic lights by their impact on the speed of traffic at road segments approaching the lights. But the refinement that waze looks at different speeds for different turns at any intersection - haven't observed that behaviour or seen anyone else make that claim.

I have always seen the opposite. Waze not routing me through a segment that is fast straight through, but slow turning, and where most wazers turn. And contrariwise sending me on what seems an obviously slower route because of a notorious slow turn at an intersection which is very fast to go straight through, and which most people do.

Now both of these are busy intersections used by man different wazers at different turns of day. If waze is processing data on road speeds based on turning patterns, I'd have expected it to show by now.

But I could be wrong. :-)
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Re: How about adding Traffic Lights/Signals

Postby waynemcdougall » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:21 am

anand999 wrote:I'd love to see traffic lights added, just for the fact that traffic lights can make a big difference in how long a certain route takes. A route that takes a mile or two longer may actually be quicker if you hit fewer traffic lights than the shorter route.

I don't expect Waze to use traffic lights when it calculates routing because there are way too many variables (e.g. some lights behave differently depending on the time of day). However, it would be awesome if you could draw a route manually and then have Waze tell you the total distance and how many lights you'd encounter.


But because Waze uses the average speed on a road and with enough data the average speed at a time of day, it takes account of the expected time delay of traffic lights without needing to know they are there! If the traffic lights slow you up, that road will be slower and waze will take a longer way, around the lights.

I already see that now. After a few days good driving Waze changes a suggested route to a few back streets that avoid the traffic lights. It is really clever. In some cases it finds (with the extra road times from me driving them) that the back streets are too slow, and goes back to the traffic lights. And sometimes it will send me through the traffic lights depending on the time of day.

It works. Now there may be other reasons to add traffic lights (I'm against), but helping you to choose a longer route with no lights isn't one of them.

http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/How_ ... stop_signs
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Re: How about adding Traffic Lights/Signals

Postby waynemcdougall » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:32 am

briandb1222 wrote:The traffic jam reported at an intersection may not be always due to a traffic light. Could have been traffic due to a wreck, or cops arresting someone. A traffic jam at an intersection may not automatically register to the user as a traffic light, and, traffic data is reflected by previous users that have taken that route recently, so it is not very accurate.


So? Traffic delays may be caused by a herd of stampeding unicorns. I don't care. It doesn't matter. I want the fastest route to my destination. Without psychic powers to see in the future, the best bet is the fastest route on average (the closer the average is based to the current time of day) the better.

And that's what Waze gives me. It does it very well. Its getting better all the time.

briandb1222 wrote:traffic data is reflected by previous users that have taken that route recently, so it is not very accurate.


Seriously @briandb1222 I don't understand your point. Routing is based on historical average speeds. That's good. That's what we want. That's no inaccurate.

Routing is also based on avoiding current traffic problems. That depends on another poor wazer having suffered in that area already, but I may get routed around it for the short-term. So Waze knows the average sped is 48km/hr, but some Wazer just went through at 12 km/hr. For the next little while Ill assume the speeds is 12 km/hr and maybe you get a faster route as a result. But it will go back to using the average (which may have dropped a bit, but not by much), and next day I'll be sent that route again.

One of us is not getting something, it seems to me.
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Re: How about adding Traffic Lights/Signals

Postby waynemcdougall » Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:44 am

briandb1222 wrote:I don't care what you want.


Thanks for clarifying that. :?

briandb1222 wrote:Adding traffic lights is beneficial, for one, the Wazer will know which intersection has lights at (just a heads up, yeah.)


Or more accurately the wazer will know some of the places where a traffic light may be. I have friends with a GPS with traffic lights. They hate it because the information is out-of-date and incomplete. Turn left at the next traffic lights is worse than useless when those lights were replaced with a roundabout and you ow go left 3 miles too late.

The reality is that the traffic light information will be very incomplete because there is no incentive to add or maintain it. And incomplete information can be much worse than no information.

briandb1222 wrote:Also, some people DO give directions by traffic lights. Maybe the destination isn't found on Waze, but someone tells the Wazer to go through Unicorn Lane and Shut the H Up Blvd. Well, guess what, it is safer to see if those two streets are traffic light controlled, then for the Wazer to be looking at his GPS the whole time trying to find the streets that person gave him.


And even safer to enter your destination into Waze and listen to the verbal instructions.

briandb1222 wrote:Also, what if traffic jam is clear even though GPS shows it is still there? Its re-routing could have made you take longer. You are playing 50/50 by going fully by the GPS.[\quote]

Let's be honest. 50/50 is just something you made up. Rerouting based on traffic congestion reports does not take place for long. I still think it is a better option than anything else. But of course its only guidance and if you think you know better you can drive your own route. And even better if you drive through that congested area and its clear, Waze will report it clear to everyone else. So whatever you do helps everyone, and the more wazers the better the system works.

briandb1222 wrote:I notice this a lot in residential areas, where it reports a avg speed of 0 mph, when in fact there is no traffic...at all.


I'm going to guess you are seeing these road reports from people paused on gas stations or at home. Not usually a problem for routing - as you say they are residential areas. But I'm sure the Waze client will give us a Pause option Real Soon Now.
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Re: How about adding Traffic Lights/Signals

Postby waynemcdougall » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

briandb1222 wrote:Maybe the destination isn't found on Waze, but someone tells the Wazer to go through Unicorn Lane and Shut the H Up Blvd. Well, guess what, it is safer to see if those two streets are traffic light controlled, then for the Wazer to be looking at his GPS the whole time trying to find the streets that person gave him. Now, finding those two streets, and the Wazer sees they are traffic controlled, he would now know to pass two lights before turning into his destination...he would not have to look at his GPS so much to be sure he is on track.


Apart from this scenario not making sense: why are you using Waze if the destination isn't found on it?, if you're following traffic ligh based directions, why are you using Waze, at what point in this process is Waze supposed to show you these two streets with traffic lights, when the destination isn't on it, how you can see a traffic light signification on a tiny screen at a glance while driving, and so on....

I have to say

http://xkcd.com/783/

but also

I'm just not sure how well this plan was thought through....briandb1222

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK7BUBVxB1k
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