Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on Maui

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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby deadbirddog » Fri May 01, 2015 12:52 pm

I picked up a Mercedes E350 convertible from Hertz in Kahului. They never said a word about any restricted roads. Not to me, not to anyone in line around me. It's your call out there. I totally get the problem with the routing engine. Still, there's no way the South Hana Route past MM30 to MM48 or any part of Maui County Route 340 should be marked as a minor highway.

Cloud887 wrote:Also NEVER take a rental car around the West Maui's side of the island, you think Hana and Piilani are bad. West Maui side we are talking single dirt road with sheer cliff on the side with two way traffic.


That's my point exactly.

It's irrelevant to me at this juncture though. It took me 37 years to get back to Maui and I've got other places on the travel agenda in the future. I just thought I'd point out what I consider to be a potential problem.

Happy motoring.
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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby Cloud887 » Sat May 02, 2015 2:45 am

"Still, there's no way the South Hana Route past MM30 to MM48 or any part of Maui County Route 340 should be marked as a minor highway."
They are defined as this by the DOT for a reason. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway) A highway is any public road or other public way on land. It is used for major roads, but also includes other public roads and public tracks: It is not an equivalent term to freeway (motorway)..
So being defined as minor highways is correct.
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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby deadbirddog » Sat May 02, 2015 5:43 am

You should review the Waze definition of minor highways. That's what is relevant here, not what the generic highway description from Wikipedia says. Both of these routes are County roads, not state or US roads. You know as well as I do what Maui 340 is. Go read the Waze road definition types and see if you still think minor highway is accurate.

All I'm saying is this. I deal with risk management and legal applications of it every day for a living. That road can be dangerous. If Waze puts someone out there on 340 and they get hurt how comfortable would you be in court defending that classification to a jury?

It's your ballgame out there. Do what you think is best.
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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby doctorkb » Sat May 02, 2015 2:07 pm

Deadbirddog: you're so far off base here.

YOU need to review the waze guidelines. The routes we are talking about are all signed, numbered state highways, which puts them in the mH class.
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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby deadbirddog » Sat May 02, 2015 5:32 pm

It was my impression that 340 was a county route, not a state route. Thanks for the snarky reply though. No attempt at a good deed ever goes unpunished, especially with Waze. By your own admission you've never driven 340. The two people posting here who have driven it report it as a dangerous, one lane dirt/Gravel track with sheer unguarded drop offs. Do whatever you want. What I've gotten for describing my actual experience there is grief and aggravation. I'm truly sorry I even bothered mentioning anything. It's not on my conscience if someone gets hurt out there. I did my best to bring what I consider a danger to the attention of people who could so something about it. If you guys don't care then neither do I.

Happy motoring.
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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby doctorkb » Sat May 02, 2015 5:52 pm

deadbirddog wrote:It was my impression that 340 was a county route, not a state route. Thanks for the snarky reply though.


Dude... you started pointing people at documentation without reason.

A simple search would have found you that 340 is a state route, which meets the Waze standard for mH.

Nevermind that you have several local editors, including a senior editor telling you why it is that way and why it needs to stay that way.

No attempt at a good deed ever goes unpunished, especially with Waze. By your own admission you've never driven 340. The two people posting here who have driven it report it as a dangerous, one lane dirt/Gravel track with sheer unguarded drop offs.


You actually misread. I HAVE done 340. I have NOT done the entire 31 from Hana to Ulupaluakua.

340 was hardly dangerous when I did it ~5 years ago. It was entirely paved, almost entirely two-lane, and I don't recall any concerning dropoffs.

Do whatever you want. What I've gotten for describing my actual experience there is grief and aggravation. I'm truly sorry I even bothered mentioning anything. It's not on my conscience if someone gets hurt out there. I did my best to bring what I consider a danger to the attention of people who could so something about it. If you guys don't care then neither do I.


What you're doing is arguing -- if you took this road and had that "grief and aggravation", then I would posit you should give up your drivers license!

The road's concerning parts do start very quickly at both ends -- you should have found somewhere to turn around and go back... and then trust ANY nav system (including Waze) as well as ANYONE's advice and go the normal way.
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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby deadbirddog » Sat May 02, 2015 6:34 pm

The grief and aggravation comes from here, not the roadway. I taught EVOC for years and have driven more than three million miles all over the globe. You want a truly scary road? Go try Route Irish. To imply I should "turn in my license" is laughable. You know nothing about me or my experiences.

The lesson here is clear. Shut up and say nothing. You already have it all figured out and don't need any help or suggestions. I'm totally good with that. Actually takes less of my time and effort.

Again, happy motoring.
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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby doctorkb » Sat May 02, 2015 6:40 pm

When your goal is to only argue and try to tell people they're doing things wrong (when you're clearly incorrect), yes, please stay out of it.

If you want to discuss and suggest, that's different, but we gave you very clear reasons as to why it was set, and you wanted to continue to argue.
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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby Machete808 » Sat May 02, 2015 7:31 pm

deadbirddog wrote:I picked up a Mercedes E350 convertible from Hertz in Kahului. They never said a word about any restricted roads. Not to me, not to anyone in line around me. It's your call out there. I totally get the problem with the routing engine. Still, there's no way the South Hana Route past MM30 to MM48 or any part of Maui County Route 340 should be marked as a minor highway.


Sorry I've been absent from this discussion for a few days. I actually do think we're going to have some Functional Classification work to do here.

I may have mentioned I have a draft of the state's FC plan. I've made a couple of screenshots from the relevant map. Sorry I can't capture all of it, but it would appear that there's an argument to be made for downgrading part of the coastal highway. Here are a couple of links to Google Drive, where I stowed them (I think I'd need to make the files too small to post, but anyway...)

A larger view of the Maui map:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6I1K3 ... sp=sharing


Closer in, to capture more detail of the map legend:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6I1K3 ... sp=sharing

I've got to get serious about tracking down the final edition of this plan, assuming it exists. But it looks to me like Rural Major Collector which (correct me if I'm wrong) could be Primary Street.

Anyhow, it's a serious issue. I'm sorry this turned into an argument, but I'm glad the issue was raised.
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Re: Piilani Highway Route 31 and Kahekili Road Route 340 on

Postby doctorkb » Sat May 02, 2015 7:37 pm

The fact that it is a numbered state highway overrides the FC, per Waze rules...
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