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Landmarks discussion: OBSOLETE?

Post by
The discussion that follows may be obsolete, based on coming changes to the landmarking system. All I know is what I read in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=276&t=82412

FYI, I've started a new thread in this forum, for any feedback on local issues, here:

viewtopic.php?f=305&t=82767

------------

Here's the earlier locked thread that has the latest discussion about what's to be landmarked:

http://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=38934

I do note that it was locked in February and even though this has been described as the near-final list, as far as I can tell, final guidelines still haven't been added to the Wiki for the U.S. as a whole.

I've made some deletions of small businesses that were landmarked but thought it's best to hash this out a bit. Waze sells advertising for businesses, so I get why they don't want to give away such labeling. The really manini stores/"stalls" are a pretty easy call, but it gets dodgy deciding on what constitutes a fairly major shopping center (to be mapped) as opposed to a strip mall (not to be mapped as a landmark). There are other debatable points, too, I'm sure.

But I thought we should read over this list and use much of it as standard (how to map/label post offices, for example). Anyone got specific/general comments here?

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Last edited by Machete808 on Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by AndyPoms
I've been asked by other Champs to step in here and make a few points.
  1. Landmarks are NOT POIs.
  2. Waze is working on a separate POI system.
  3. Do NOT landmark individual businesses. It is against US Editing Policy (not the "near-final Landmark Guidelines", but actual Editing Policy) & users not following Editing Policy are subject to loss of editing rights.
  4. The "Connecticut List" was the basis for a discussion and it was modified before it became the "Near-Final US Landmark Guidelines".
  5. There is room in the US Guidelines for some flexibility - for example, I doubt you are going to have a 100+ Store Mall on any of the Hawaiian Islands, so modifying the 45+ store minimum for the just the State of Hawaii to, maybe, 25+/30+ isn't a big deal. Mapping individual businesses IS a big deal.
doctorkb - You have been warned before about not following US Editing Policy & our applicable guidelines - and lost a significant editable area in the US due to your unwillingness to follow basic editing proceedures. We allowed you to keep your AM in Hawaii because there was not a significant number of Wazers on the islands back then, it now appears that Hawaii has it's own local community of editors and no longer needs foreign assistance.
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Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by ButterlessToast
I just got a PM from Vickimachado today. Should I delete the reference to the strips mall in Ewa Beach? (Ewa Town Center, Laulani Villiage Shopping Center, etc.)

I've labeled shops and mapped parking lot roads. (not stalls)
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Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by ButterlessToast
FYI: I've also Mapped out a small part in Kalihi (near the old Foremost dairy - First Hawaii Bank's Kamehameha Industrial Park, Marukai, etc.) Should I delete those too?
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Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by Daknife
Not to intrude but pending a real final list (if we ever see one) you might look into a state specific wiki entry as you'll find for Utah in my signature. It's very close to the list in the thread you linked to, just tweaked a bit to meet local needs and what I felt up to fighting some local landmark crazy editors over. Take a look perhaps something similar will do for your state until standard is actually set (if ever).
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Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by doctorkb
My feelings on it are that landmarks vary based on locale.

A tiny business on Lanai might have the largest sign on the island and makes for a useful landmark. The same business with the same sign in Waikiki would be completely lost.
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Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by doctorkb
Vancouver and Victoria are very pretty! And you're picking a good time of the year -- it shouldn't be too chilly yet. :)

I think there are some pretty easy ones that should be gone: parking lots come to mind! The only exceptions I've seen to this are when you're trying to identify a named lot (like on a university campus) or when you're identifying a lot as public (vs. staff, at a hospital, for instance).
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Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by doctorkb
TidusWulf: in future, it'd probably be better to consult with the higher-level editors (e.g. Nacron) who placed those. I think the only item that really has consensus for eliminating are parking-lot landmarks. Everything else is much more of a judgment call that is region-specific.

I'm of very mixed view on this subject. On Maui, it is common to use the hotels in the resort areas (Wailea, Makena, Kaanapali) as landmarks (you'll hear instructions like "drive past the Marriott, then it's your next left" or "after the Makena Resort, take your next turn mauka"). I realise this doesn't work in other areas (e.g. Waikiki), but it does on Maui.

Additionally, the comment on "Sea Port" is accurate -- I believe it is entirely appropriate to map areas like Kahului Harbour, Maalaea Harbour, Kihei Boat Ramp and Mala Ramp all as sea ports.

Also, the discussion that I've seen on this topic has nothing to do with monetizing of the map (though that has been suggested a bunch of times, but never by Waze staff), and everything to do with avoiding clutter.
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Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by doctorkb
Ok, I've gone through a number of the parts of Maui now, and I can honestly say that the removal of landmarks has been *damage* to the map.

Sure would have been nice to have had some discussion on this before a Level 2 editor simply removed everything that doesn't fit in Connecticut's view of what should be mapped...
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Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by doctorkb
Yeah, exactly. I think there are certainly some "landmark" hotels, and some non-landmark hotels.

Like that pink one on Waikiki Beach is a landmark one. :)

It seems a few golf courses were also removed recently, as well as a church that serves as a landmark.

I've started locking the landmarks that I think should be there to '4' -- at least this way it won't be someone new to the maps who goes a little wild on deleting them...
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Re: Landmarks discussion

Post by doctorkb
jemay wrote:Putting landmarks for business should not be done! Based on the agreed discussion for USA
Please consider that Hawaii is different from the rest of the country. If you've spent some significant time there, you'd know what I mean.

Street signs are often missing, and even when present nobody seems to know their names... It's always "one street past such and such" or "just before you get to something or other"

Marking significant locations like Costco is more important for navigation than marking gas stations is for finding gas -- those are on practically every corner and rarely differ in price.

I agree that marking small businesses is not appropriate... It would lead to a ridiculously cluttered map with no benefit.

But if you leave Costco off the map in Maui, you have removed the primary landmark for anyone trying to get to the airport. (As one example).

Leaving the small boat harbours off is also going to lead to reduced functionality for visitors and locals alike... But that's what those Connecticut rules say to do.
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