Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby restless_in_nb » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:07 pm

Colin, in looking at North St more closely, it is part of the Hwy 3 system which is, from NS classification, a major highway. As such, I will be leaving it as this. Please let me know if you have any concerns.

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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby ColinsGoat » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:03 pm

I don't think that's consistent with the definition. North Street is one lane in each direction, and goes through residential neighbourhoods at 50 km/h, with plenty of intersections. As an arterial, perhaps it qualifies as a minor highway.
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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby doctorkb » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:11 pm

Colin: scroll up a little on that page, emphasis mine:
Changing of Types
As a highway enters a city/town, it often becomes a named street, and sometimes would no longer fit the usual criteria for a "highway".
Due to a number of reasons, including long-distance routing issues, as well as appearance, the highway should remain as the same type it entered the city/town (except if it's a Freeway -- if it no longer fits the Freeway criteria, it may be downgraded to Major Highway until it is again a Freeway).
The road type designation should follow the entire numbered route.
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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby ColinsGoat » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:04 pm

Well that's interesting, and puts the current situation into a different light.

Notwithstanding the above, it still seems wrong to designate North Street (not to mention Windmill Road on the other side of the harbour) as major highway, as it does generally not to be able to categorize a street according to its function within the municipality. Perhaps in reality this amounts to little more than concern over semantics, but I would have thought that the routing algorithm would benefit from categorization that better reflects reality.

But then again, I'm still only a well-intentioned noob :)
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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby doctorkb » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:02 am

ColinsGoat wrote:Well that's interesting, and puts the current situation into a different light.

Notwithstanding the above, it still seems wrong to designate North Street (not to mention Windmill Road on the other side of the harbour) as major highway, as it does generally not to be able to categorize a street according to its function within the municipality. Perhaps in reality this amounts to little more than concern over semantics, but I would have thought that the routing algorithm would benefit from categorization that better reflects reality.

But then again, I'm still only a well-intentioned noob :)


Well, of course, you're welcome to either:
1) Lobby the provincial government to change the official route to one that makes more sense
or
2) Lobby your municipality to improve the road to the point at which it warrants being marked as the highway that it is numbered as...

:)
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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby restless_in_nb » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:57 am

Colin, here is how I rationalize this in my mind. The province/state wants to shunt traffic to collectors, arteries, etc. Even if it's a local road, it's still probably the more direct way to get to collectors/arteries...so waze should give it priority when routing.

In the cases you've mentioned, I can see your point. But, if these are not seen by waze as the main collectors...what should be in their place? In some towns in NB, and NS, a major highway is not much more than a chipseal road with a low speed limit, where in other areas it's a wide and beautiful road with a high speed limit. In the context of where they are though, they are still major in relation to other options for routing.

In PEI, almost every road seems to be a highway of some sort, so there I'm more likely to label some of primary roads, rather than highways...otherwise the whole province would be a grid of highways which I believe would causing routing chaos. Again, it's a bit of a judgement call.

This is not official waze wiki stuff, but it helps me make decisions on how to categorize roads. I love these conversations though, especially when folks like DoctorKB chime in because they have forgotten 100 times more about waze that I know...

Cheers!
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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby ColinsGoat » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:56 pm

restless_in_nb wrote: But, if these are not seen by waze as the main collectors...what should be in their place?


I guess my thought is that roads like North Street should be given elevated routing priority, but not on par with something like the Bedford Highway. That is, the former would be a minor highway, and the latter a major highway. In practice (and maybe in my opinion...) North St., Joseph Howe Dr., and Connaught Ave. are of comparable importance in traffic flow in Halifax. Yet, the first is major highway, the second is minor highway, and the third is both a minor highway and a primary street. The categorization doesn't seem to correlate strongly with reality.

restless_in_nb wrote:This is not official waze wiki stuff, but it helps me make decisions on how to categorize roads. I love these conversations though, especially when folks like DoctorKB chime in because they have forgotten 100 times more about waze that I know...


I find this all very informative, and strangely fascinating! And I do know that my opinions have little basis in Waze experience. But by provoking these discussions, if nothing else, I selfishly get to learn a lot. :D
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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby ColinsGoat » Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:04 pm

doctorkb wrote:
Well, of course, you're welcome to either:
1) Lobby the provincial government to change the official route to one that makes more sense
or
2) Lobby your municipality to improve the road to the point at which it warrants being marked as the highway that it is numbered as...

:)


Ugh, neither sounds appealing... :)

So out of curiosity, how strongly obligated are we to follow the "official" road designations and categories? If Waze is user-driven, shouldn't we be flexible enough to depart from descriptors that could be out-of-date and/or bureaucratically inaccurate?
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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby doctorkb » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:29 pm

Well, if we had absolute consensus, I'd be ok with considering a deviation, however the whole point of standards is that they exist for a reason.

If we downgrade a section of a designated highway, it could mean that there is no continuity between something at the other end of it, and something that connects to part of what we downgraded (i.e. if we downgraded a section of the marked Highway 16 in Jasper, AB, it's quite likely that Waze couldn't route from Edmonton, AB to Prince George, BC).

The issue with coming up with an alternative path is documentation -- yes, we decide here, but what happens when some other editor comes along and says "well, that isn't a numbered highway, and I don't see it on the functional classification list... downgrade time!"
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Re: Halifax, NS. Major vs Minor Highways

Postby ColinsGoat » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:51 pm

I'm not sure the Jasper example is a good one, since the highway doesn't pass through an urban area. And I'm not familiar with the area. But I did do some looking around at other places I'm familiar with (Ottawa and Los Angeles) and saw that there are many roads labelled as "major highway" in a manner similar to those in question in Halifax. So I suppose North Street et al are indeed reasonably consistent with the overall implementation, notwithstanding the semantics of "major highway".

Thanks for the discussion, guys! It has been informative.

C
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