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Landmarks

Post by Daknife
This is an issue that has cropped up recently in Utah. Currently the consensus among Country Managers in the US is to limit the use of Landmarks to a small subset of the available options. Specifically we want Schools, Gas stations, Parks (and I count Golf courses as Parks), Large mall complexes (Gateway, South Towne etc...), Transit Parking lots (Specifically Trax, Front Runner and official UTA Park and Ride Lots), Cemetaries and critical government facilities landmarked. For the last one this should primarily be Police Depts and Post offices.

We don't want every little shop in every strip mall, or every business, or every parking lot you can find landmarked. There are reasons for this, to avoid cluttering the maps to the point that such landmarks become useless. With the exception of parks all landmarks are painted with the same color, put small ones too close together and they merge together. Further the names of landmarks tend to float around and if multiple landmarks are close together it becomes impossible to determine what the labels are for. Further marking landmarks within a landmark doesn't work because again there is no delineation of the separate landmarks and you get shop names floating around inside a larger landmark. One other landmark that is not needed is any body of water. Water is marked in a map layer that Waze has not given us access to.

Why then, you may ask is there such a large list of landmarks. That list is believed to have been generated automatically when the base map import occurred, it basically pulled the landmark list from the Tiger maps that the basemap import was made from. A request has been made to have Waze staff look at the list and consider trimming it down.

Some of you have probably noticed I've been going through and deleting a lot of unnecessary landmarks, I've also been locking many of the ones we do want, this isn't necessarily to block any of you, but rather it's is a way for me to mark ones I've already looked at and agreed with. I do intend to go through and unlock many if not all of them.

Anyway there are still many many schools out there that need to be landmarked, I'm strongly in favor of landmarking the perimeter of the school grounds not just the building, it's quicker and cleaner.

But most of all what I want to avoid is a mess I happened across recently responding to an unlock request in Southern CA, Next to the segment of freeway being addressed Everything was landmarked, it was a solid mass of overlapping landmarks, which meant that in the client it was a solid grey blob with the many many landmark names floating around with no reference points as to what the names actually referred to. Let's keep landmarks useable by limiting them.

Thanks
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Post by AndyPoms
daknife wrote:As the discussion on what Landmarks are acceptable was recently taken behind closed doors by the Waze Champs (I've raised a strong objection, but am not expecting much.)

As such, tired of lacking any concrete standards I've taken a fairly comprehensive list used in Connecticut that I mostly agree with and I adapted it for Utah. The CT list allows no religious sites and no bodies of water but I feel significant religious landmarks (such as but not limited to Temples). And the Jordan river is not in the water layer north of the Narrows so it needed to be added.

The new guidelines wiki for Utah can be found at http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Utah ... Guidelines most of these rules are open for discussion. Should a nationwide standard ever be suggested we'll take a look at it then. If your wiki-fu is great (mine is weak) feel free to find and add any relevant images and examples.
Please see the two responses to your post in the other Landmark thread (viewtopic.php?f=276&t=26005&start=100). Both your issues with Religious Sites and the Water Layer were addressed PREVIOUSLY to your last response in that thread (and again after). You keep forgetting that the Connecticut List is Connecticut Specific, just like the Utah list you generated - it was never intended to BE the national guideline, but since it was the first comprehensive set of landmark guidelines it's being used as a base for national guidelines (just like you used it as a base for the Utah guidelines) - and being MODIFIED to remove CT specific guidelines & allow for local guidelines/definitions.

Please stop making it seem like the champs are keeping users from the discussion, we've taken the other comments in that thread under advisement and we are just trying to get a comprehensive set of guidelines in place so that general users can comment on them in an organized manner.
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Post by AndyPoms
1) I didn't start the other thread - I didn't even comment until page 2. You even commented before I did. When I did something productive (making the list) to try to organize the discussion, it didn't do anything, and people didn't pay attention and started talking about everything except mapping guidelines ("why do landmarks snap to roads?", "can we get parking lot roads to display smaller in the client", and a discussion about gas station landmarks and the gas price feature).

2) The thread didn't go quiet because the champs took it private - it just fizzled out. There hasn't been any discussions about landmarks in the champs forum until this week (mainly because I've been too busy with the holidays & then work to start the conversation). I wasn't even asked to start working on using that other thread to modify the CT list for national use until late December.

3) You have not responded to ANY of the things we've said in response to your specific questions/criticisms. How about you work with us instead just complaining? EDIT: You have now responded to that thread.
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Post by Daknife
As the discussion on what Landmarks are acceptable was recently taken behind closed doors by the Waze Champs (I've raised a strong objection, but am not expecting much.)

As such, tired of lacking any concrete standards I've taken a fairly comprehensive list used in Connecticut that I mostly agree with and I adapted it for Utah. The CT list allows no religious sites and no bodies of water but I feel significant religious landmarks (such as but not limited to Temples). And the Jordan river is not in the water layer north of the Narrows so it needed to be added.

The new guidelines wiki for Utah can be found at http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Utah ... Guidelines most of these rules are open for discussion. Should a nationwide standard ever be suggested we'll take a look at it then. If your wiki-fu is great (mine is weak) feel free to find and add any relevant images and examples.
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Post by Daknife
But you have excluded all non=champs from the discussion. We have zero view of where you guys are leaning on the various landmark types, except the random, "Hey we now recommend using CT's wiki page as a basis." I got in response to my waking up the Landmark thread.

That's my point. We were involved, it was open, perhaps the biggest weakness of that thread was that nobody was stepping up and saying "Okay are we all or mostly good with choice a or choice b?" when a type of landmark was questioned. You initiated that thread you should have been the one to take the lead. What I took as a fairly solid consensus was that for the most part nobody really picked apart the list you put out on page two of that thread. A couple items were still under discussion, but most the "Mapped, not mapped" it seemed to me people were agreeing with.

Then the thread went silent until, when prompted by a question from another country, I woke it back up. And now it turns out the reason it went silent is because the Champs took it into their private forum where the rest of us can't see it.

Do what you want, Utah's guidelines will stand (though adjustable through discussion by Utah Editors) until a national standard is finally set in your exclusive private forum. Then we'll see if we want to follow it or not. Or if Waze actually sets a policy but we know that isn't likely to happen, other than them validating the Champs recommendation. At that time or pending discussion here between Utah Editors we'll adjust.

Your CT guidelines are mostly good, and I've only adjusted them a little.
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Post by Daknife
You are right sorry not sure where I got that you started it. Sorry about that.
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Post by WayzNut
My first post to this was lost because my login timed out. (ugh..I hate that) I am not going to type that again.

The short of it is I think eliminating all the stores, shops, businesses, parking lots (that are for malls, strip malls, etc) is a good start and will remove the clutter that you are talking about. I still think the others are useful, because they will be fairly limited and useful.

The only items in the Leisure section I find useful are Park, Museum, Mall, Camp site

The others in Leisure are too common and clutter things up and are the one's that you are removing everywhere.
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