L2(?) Roundabout Enlargement - Llantwit Major

[BlueVanVOG]

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This roundabout is far too small to display properly in the app; it's just a blob. I would have liked to try enlarging it myself but sadly I don't have permissions to delete the segments. I'd appreciate it if someone could enlarge it to at least the minimum like all the other mini-roundabouts in the area.

Cheers

PS. I also have a few outstanding PURs before I was trusted, in Llantwit and Rhoose to the east, including some schools etc that really should be on the map.

[iainhouse]

Roundabout rebuilt.

You're quite right - it was definitely too small. We recommend a minimum radius of 7m on roundabouts to keep the display in the app reasonable. I can't see any reason why you couldn't do it yourself though, unless its the L1 restrictions on deleting segments.

There's another too-small roundabout here. Do you want to give that a try?

When creating/replacing mini roundabouts, it's important to consider the angles. A roundabout with 2-4 connections at more or less 90° increments from each other is "normal". This means it will give "turn left/go straight on/turn right" instructions instead of "take the n'th exit", and this is much preferable. So when you create one, first join all the segments at the roundabout centre and arrange them at right-angles. Once the roundabout is drawn, you can add kinks to re-align the joining roads back to their aerial alignments. You can see an example with another one I just rebuild here.

[BlueVanVOG]

So let me get that straight - if you draw a T junction at roughly right angles, then convert to a roundabout, it still gives turn right/turn left instructions, as in your example in the Old Town?

I'd like to try but the problem is that the editor forbids L1s from deleting anyone else's work, for any reason!

I'm suffering a similar but unrelated problem drawing out the roads on MOD St Athan/St Athan Business Park (I am fairly qualified having spent eight years there up to 2018) because an L1 editor had recently dropped a random segment of unconnected street on the base, which I had to incorporate as I can't delete it. Now half the base is throwing overlapped segment errors in validator and I can't delete and start again because it's attributed half the roads to him! Permalink.

I can't even delete the segments I explicitly own, because for some reason the save button is giving me 'elements have been modified or deleted' errors! Halp?

Edit: That error now seems to be applying 50% of the time to anything I try to do within the area. I'm going to give it a rest for a bit - possibly I've overdone it by drawing in the entire station at once, save for the bit that was already done?!

[iainhouse]

So let me get that straight - if you draw a T junction at roughly right angles, then convert to a roundabout, it still gives turn right/turn left instructions, as in your example in the Old Town?

Exactly.

I'd like to try but the problem is that the editor forbids L1s from deleting anyone else's work, for any reason!

Yes - I understand this is a pain. I've deleted the roundabout I suggested you replace and set up the T-junction. See if you can add the roundabout now.

I'm suffering a similar but unrelated problem drawing out the roads on MOD St Athan/St Athan Business Park

Yes, you have got in a mess here! It does happen occasionally - if there's a specific action that can cause it, I don't know what it is, so you probably haven't done anything wrong. We refer to these as sync errors. I've tried deleting the extra segments myself without success. If you're lucky it will clear by tomorrow. But more likely you'll have to wait for the next tile rebuild. Try this useful service set up by the Waze Belgium community. You can use it to get an email notification when a tile update takes place that covers edits up to the time the form is submitted. You can paste a permalink into the form, or a link to this topic to remind you what you wanted to check.

[BlueVanVOG]

Roundabout's in. Would be interested to see the instructions it gives, once the tile's updated I'll set up a test route there. I've also signed up to the email service and I'll have another go at the mess once it rebuilds. Fortunately I don't think anyone who has business on the MOD site will particularly depend on Waze for getting where they're going - it was as much an exercise in practice for me as in completeness of the map. Thanks for the help!

[iainhouse]

Looks good - nearly.

I should have mentioned another fact about mini roundabouts. Whilst 7m minimum radius is a general guideline for decent visibility in the app, there's another dimension that is more important. If the radius is less than 10m, Waze will avoid directing users to make a u-turn using the roundabout. This is important for a good user experience. Even the Highway Code advises against making u-turns at mini roundabouts.

In this case, you've just squeaked in under the 10m radius, so it should be OK. But whilst you shouldn't go below 7m, there's no need to make it larger than "reality".

[BlueVanVOG]

Noted! So mini roundabouts 7-9m ideally, full roundabouts realistic size but with a 7m minimum. Got it.