Historic Data

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Re: Historic Data

Postby bgodette » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:00 pm

CBenson wrote:
bgodette wrote:[Upgrading the road to Major Hwy] would do nothing.


So which of you is correct or are these statement actually not in conflict?
Well mine are based on cleaned routes vs the NanoRep response and this route vs this route and this route vs the same route just a tiny bit further north along a 23km long unbroken segment.

That's the straight-line distance tiers at work, and it takes a bit to make it use predominately Freeway over a much shorter/faster Major/Minor mix.
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Re: Historic Data

Postby bgodette » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:25 pm

chrysrobyn wrote:Looking at the GPS tracks (which I think I've read are rarely or just not recently updated), some segments of Hampden are very light on data.
There's filtering (track reduction) applied to highly traveled segments when the GPS layer tiles are generated. All of 285's segments are auto-direction locked which means they've seen enough drives to disable it. Waze hasn't said what that number is, but it's fairly high.
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Re: Historic Data

Postby CBenson » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:23 pm

I've had basically the same problem for last couple of days. I'm 99% convinced that my issue is not a map problem, but a routing server problem where the current/historic traffic info is not correctly taken into account. Interestingly, waze has been rerouting for me, so it is only the initial route calculation that seems to not take into account the traffic. Haven't really been able to verify that traffic is not taken into account in the initial evening route I receive, but it seems clear to me in the morning that the initial route is not taking into account the traffic data.

bgodette wrote:I'd like to know what route B is because every single destination I've set inside the 470/nwp loop and into central Boulder has been accurate to +/- 2 minutes even during rush. The only times I've had it be inaccurate is when an accident has just happened or there's something that doesn't happen at the same time on the same day of week (sports, presidential debates, stolen tanks, etc).

Wow. For my route into DC the ETA is never accurate to within 15 min. My ETA always creeps up by at least 15 min during my drive in. (Always being since the ETA has been constantly displayed.)

Stolen tanks?
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Re: Historic Data

Postby CBenson » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:20 pm

bgodette wrote:[Upgrading the road to Major Hwy] would do nothing.


So which of you is correct or are these statement actually not in conflict?
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Re: Historic Data

Postby CBenson » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:28 pm

bgodette wrote:Well mine are based on cleaned routes vs the NanoRep response and this route vs this route and this route vs the same route just a tiny bit further north along a 23km long unbroken segment.

That's the straight-line distance tiers at work, and it takes a bit to make it use predominately Freeway over a much shorter/faster Major/Minor mix.

I agree that is the distance tiers at work. But does it follow that there is no effect on a shorter commuting route selection (say for routes less than 50 miles) if you switch a highway from minor to major?
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Re: Historic Data

Postby chrysrobyn » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:38 pm

sublimese wrote:For those that really want to know....
I live in North Arvada CO. I drive to the North end of the Tech Center
Route A == Kipling south -> I70 East -> I25 South -> Belleview (50-70 minutes)
Route B == Kipling south -> I70 West -> C470 South -> 285 East -> Happy Canyon South (45-50 minutes)

Waze only gives me the choice of Route A (or a few variations on it) and tells that that Route A will only take 35 minutes. You try driving route A during rush hour and tell me that it only takes 35 minutes.......


Having never spent a minute in Denver, I wanted to see what I could about your problem. I think you're saying you drive this instead of this. Is that right?

(I wish Waze had a helpful way of permalinking a route, including waypoints.)
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Re: Historic Data

Postby chrysrobyn » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:23 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Route length is something which can affect the road type which Waze will prefer to use which we have no influence over. At certain distances (I cannot recall specifics at this time), Waze will try to not route on anything less than primary street except to get you to one, and off of one near the destination. Longer distances and even Primary Street isn't preferred over highway/freeway. Your list of streets looks like highway or greater for the middle sections, which, again, should be fine for routing even for longer routes.

What is the total distance for your route B?


It's looking north of 30 miles for the preferred route and 23 or below for the Waze provided route.

Looking around, 285 / Hampden Ave should be Major Highway at the maximum (at-grade intersections) (editor is down so I can't see what it really is), and given the difference of distances I would not be surprised if the routing server doesn't even consider that when a much shorter freeway is available -- I believe this is what AlanOfTheBerg is suggesting. How close to 285 do you have to get before Waze agrees to allow you to go that way? Do you actually have to get off 470?

As for Waze appearing not to consider current traffic speeds and vastly underestimating the speed of I-25, do you leave at the very beginning of rush hour? Is it possible the streets near your destination really are flowing very well when you leave but very congested by the time you get that far? It's not supposed to work like that, and I don't see it myself, but if it would explain what you see that might help isolate your problem.
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Re: Historic Data

Postby chrysrobyn » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:02 pm

Now that the maps are up, I've looked at your preferred route. As you said, everything looks fine with the map.

My money is on the routing server not agreeing that 285 / Alameda Ave is a valid cross-town route. I think you'd have to upgrade it to a Major Highway in order to overcome that barrier, and I believe a 5 lane road (2 in each direction plus a turn lane) with traffic signals and bus stops is already charitably considered a Minor Highway in an urban area. Depending on other factors in your area, perhaps your area managers would agree to upgrade it to Major Highway. I'm all for tuning the map to fit the routing server, as you can see.

Others, however, believe the routing server needs to better understand the map. In that event, e-mailing support is the correct route. Essentially I think you're asking them to get the routing server to consider minor highways for the 25-35 mile range -- I think you've demonstrated that because the Colfax exit is near that 25 mile limit (depending on where your actual destination is of course). I don't know how well they would take it if you were that specific, however. :geek: Perhaps pointing them at this thread would tell them what they need to know.
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Re: Historic Data

Postby chrysrobyn » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:05 pm

bgodette wrote:No, not even close.


Well, that's interesting. The last link shows the router would have considered his route if he lived a mile or so west.

bgodette wrote:
chrysrobyn wrote:I think you'd have to upgrade it to a Major Highway in order to overcome that barrier
That would do nothing. Type only comes into play if there's a lack of historical data, which there isn't, or the route is very long (>200 miles before Major vs Minor starts to matter), which it isn't, and even then the distance tiers only increase the likelihood of the route getting pruned, it doesn't outright exclude Types.


Thank you for explaining that! It doesn't explain some of what I thought I had observed, so I'll have to keep that in mind in the future when I'm trying to understand results I disagree with.

bgodette wrote:The probable issue is one of actual distance vs straight line.

If that's the case, is there a next course of action for the user or for his AMs?
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Re: Historic Data

Postby chrysrobyn » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:47 pm

bgodette wrote:
chrysrobyn wrote:If that's the case, is there a next course of action for the user or for his AMs?
Yes and no. We've managed to get Waze to increase the ratio at which is drops a route. In at least one distance tier it seems to be about 6:1.


Does this mean that Waze has already helped as much as they are going to? Do you think more data would help Waze evaluate Hampden Ave on its own merits instead of just seeing it as a Minor Highway? Looking at the GPS tracks (which I think I've read are rarely or just not recently updated), some segments of Hampden are very light on data. Is this user 20 days worth of data away from getting the route legitimized? Or is this case too far from Waze's target to show up?
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