Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

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Re: Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:46 pm

Moving this to the Localization forum for better visibility to topic discussed.
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Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby berestovskyy » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:00 am

Hi!
In some languages the word ending depends on the form of a subject (gender, conjugation etc.).

I suggest we put the full street name w/o any abbreviations into the map data and use it for TTS/search purpose. But in order to display it on a screen, App abbreviates the words or even eliminates them completely using internal abbreviation table. For instance:

1) Aleja Świętej Anny -> al. sw. Anny
2) Ulica Świętego Tomasza -> sw. Tomasza
3) Estakada imienia generała pilotów Mateusza Iżyckiego -> Estakada Mateusza Iżyckiego

So, the abbreviation table for polish data would be:
Aleja -> al.
Ulica -> null
Świętej -> sw.
Świętego -> sw.
imienia -> null
...

What do you think?
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Re: Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby berestovskyy » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:51 pm

In Polish, for instance, words "świętego" (saint m.) and "świętej" (saint f.) both have the same common abbreviation -- "sw." Same rules applies to other Slavic languages, including Russian. So we have to either invent uncommon abbreviations for every single case, or TTS will always offend the saint slavic women :D

Client App could also skip some words. Here is another polish real world example:
Estakada imienia generała pilotów Mateusza Iżyckiego
translation: Overpass named after a general of pilots Mateusz Iżycki

This quite a long name would look absolutely OK to me if it were displayed on a screen just like:
Estakada Mateusza Iżyckiego
translation: Mateusz Iżycki's Overpass

Thanks for your understanding!
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Re: Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby berestovskyy » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:25 pm

Regarding all saints. Well, I just wrote two cases, but in slavic languages there are lot's of them. Here is a quote from Wikipedia:
Nouns have grammatical gender, number, and are declined for 7 cases;
Adjectives agree with the noun in case, number, and gender;
Verbs have 2 aspects, 3 tenses, 3 moods, and 2 voices.


For the same "saint" we have 7 cases x 2 number x 3 genders = 42 forms :shock: That's why we have just one common abbreviation for all "saints" -- "sw."

Regarding TTS you're right! It's better to pronounce a short name as well. So, the final proposal is:

1. We always name the street completely and officially for accurate search.
2. The client App omits some words announcing the street name.
3. The App omits some words or abbreviate them for displaying.

An example:
Full name: Estakada imienia generała pilotów Mateusza Iżyckiego
For TTS: Estakada Mateusza Iżyckiego
To display: Est. Mateusza Iżyckiego
or even: Est. M. Iżyckiego

Ok?
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Re: Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby berestovskyy » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:05 pm

Agree! And we already have a mechanism for that -- alt. names. All you need is to mark which alt. name goes where: search, tts or display ;)
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Re: Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby berestovskyy » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:09 pm

What do we do then? Uservoice?
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Re: Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby davipt » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:17 pm

deeggo wrote:There is a possibility to do this the other way round. You can use abbreviations in streetnames in the editor and ask Waze to replace those with the full word for pronunciation.


This is how the system already works. Nuance does a lot of abbreviations by themselves, and then Waze can do some more on top.

The big question will be when search is performed into the internal DB, how will it cope with the abbreviated street names :o
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Re: Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby davipt » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:45 pm

berestovskyy wrote:In Polish, for instance, words "świętego" (saint m.) and "świętej" (saint f.) both have the same common abbreviation -- "sw." Same rules applies to other Slavic languages, including Russian. So we have to either invent uncommon abbreviations for every single case, or TTS will always offend the saint slavic women :D


We have a similar case in Portuguese. Usually Saint in general is "St.", but because most masculine words ends at "o" and most feminine at "a", it's ok to write "Stº" and "Stª", or when no special chars are available, simply "Sto." and "Sta.". In this case it got even worse because "St." was already being used by Brazil for Sector (similar to english, block, quarter, something), so I got some funny surprises when TTS was enabled in Portugal :D

berestovskyy wrote:Client App could also skip some words. Here is another polish real world example:
Estakada imienia generała pilotów Mateusza Iżyckiego
translation: Overpass named after a general of pilots Mateusz Iżycki

This quite a long name would look absolutely OK to me if it were displayed on a screen just like:
Estakada Mateusza Iżyckiego
translation: Mateusz Iżycki's Overpass


Well, you need to consider them all, the time reading it over TTS, the screen size and the label over the map. I would just cut the overhead on the street name all the time and forget the "named after a general of pilots". On the other hand "Estakada" is probably a word used a lot so I'd consider adding an abbreviation for it. We (Portugal and Brasil) have two tables, one for all the common street stuff Road, Avenue, Roundabout, etc., and other with common names like for Doctor, Professor, Military stuff. We even have roman number expansion for all the Portuguese and Spanish kings and queens, so "D. Pedro V" is read as the equivalent of "Dom Pedro the fifth".

The main point is that forgetting how the search will work later :mrgreen: the shorter the street name on the editor, the better, as it will fit better on the screen (route step-by-step, the next instruction on the top, and the alerts "heavy traffic at street xyz"), and most importantly, they will pollute less the map labels.
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Re: Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby deeggo » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:51 pm

There is a possibility to do this the other way round. You can use abbreviations in streetnames in the editor and ask Waze to replace those with the full word for pronunciation.
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Re: Client-side Abbreviations [App Suggestion]

Postby deeggo » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:24 am

Note to self: never study Slavic languages. ;-)
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