Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations etc

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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby berestovskyy » Wed May 15, 2013 10:13 pm

Regarding gas stations. Well, unfortunately in Poland we have gaps in Aerials, so it's not easy to map streets, not to mention gas stations and house numbers :(

And we have house numbers with letters, odd and even numbers on the same side of the street etc. Neither Bing nor Google address searches work here. Waze search does not work too.

As to administrative division. We have many villages and towns with the same name, and even two counties with the same name. So, we have issues naming and searching them. We asked about administrative division few times.

I'm glad there are countries which are happy with Waze as it is. All I'm trying here is to change Waze a bit, so we could also enjoy it as you are ;)

Thanks everyone for your feedback!
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby petervdveen » Wed May 15, 2013 4:29 pm

Of course.
Everyone is confused.

Nobody knows anything,even the waze employees I sometimes have the idea they have no clue about what's happening...

This of course has to change radically, but I don not see it happening.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby davipt » Wed May 15, 2013 4:25 pm

Ok I shouldn't have used the "never", but won't you agreed the cause confusion? Are three states in Canada? Ok now with the editor translations they can rename it provinces or regions or whatever it's called there but I still recall when the dashboard was showing state instead of country on the intl and people was quite confused with it.


Sent from my iTapatalk
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby petervdveen » Wed May 15, 2013 4:19 pm

Don't agree to that 100%
Maybe for some countries it will work.

But I've spoken with shira recently and she said it can be set on or off per country ;-)
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby davipt » Wed May 15, 2013 3:20 pm

petervdveen wrote:
davipt wrote:
petervdveen wrote:The U-turns function should work

Don't work at all in Portugal.

You cannot set U-turns?
You don't see the U-turn icon?

I have enabled U-Turns in certain places where I always do a U-turn. The client keeps sending me somewhere else to turn back. So no, U-turns don't work on the client.

petervdveen wrote:The Housenumbers should work.


Not working in Portugal. Search doesn't even use the internal street names, much less the house numbers.

Of course. The bing database is used. What do you suspect.
As stated lots of times before. This is just for data gathering till the moment the Waze DB will be used as primary data source.

These two cases are proof that there is already a tendency to allow editors to populate information even way before the information is used somewhere. Hence the idea of using the alt-street to start adding alternative street names, just with the caveat of tagging what type of alternative it is. I don't think anyone can say at all this is incorrect or unrelated usage. The only question, as I stated multiple times, is how to add the tag, if we wait for the field from waze, or if we abuse the alt-city in the meantime. I'd prefer the former.


petervdveen wrote:We have 12 provinces in the netherlands, but for navigating I don't see why I would need them.

Exactly. But they were enabled in Canada. And I'm afraid one day they get enabled in Europe, and people will start using the field for what it's not meant for. Just want us all to agree that State is something US only that should have never been exposed to other countries to avoid confusion.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby petervdveen » Wed May 15, 2013 3:10 pm

davipt wrote:
petervdveen wrote:About the features not working in Poland.
The U-turns function should work.


Don't work at all in Portugal.

You cannot set U-turns?
You don't see the U-turn icon?

petervdveen wrote:The Housenumbers should work.


Not working in Portugal. Search doesn't even use the internal street names, much less the house numbers.

Of course. The bing database is used. What do you suspect.
As stated lots of times before. This is just for data gathering till the moment the Waze DB will be used as primary data source.

petervdveen wrote:The state function is being worked on, but for a lot of european countries that's not necessary.


The state is gonna be yet another feature that will be designed for a set of countries and have no meaning for the rest of the world. What is a state in most countries? Usually the country has administrative regions and sub-regions and sub-sub-regions, whatever they are called locally, but in the end are they even relevant? Poland has no states, has 16 Voivodeships, like Germany has 16 Länder, Portugal has 18 distritos, all of each sub-divided into municipalities or similar, and those sub-sub-divided into smaller things. All of them are irrelevant for Waze, all of them have different names, and where one draws the line, at one division, or 4 like Portugal? Maybe one day there will be the country of Europe and the states of Poland, Portugal and Germany.

Correct.
We have 12 provinces in the netherlands, but for navigating I don't see why I would need them.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby davipt » Wed May 15, 2013 3:06 pm

petervdveen wrote:About the features not working in Poland.
The U-turns function should work.


Don't work at all in Portugal.

petervdveen wrote:The Housenumbers should work.


Not working in Portugal. Search doesn't even use the internal street names, much less the house numbers.

petervdveen wrote:The gas stations function can be enabled when there is enough data inserted.

Correct :D

petervdveen wrote:The state function is being worked on, but for a lot of european countries that's not necessary.


The state is gonna be yet another feature that will be designed for a set of countries and have no meaning for the rest of the world. What is a state in most countries? Usually the country has administrative regions and sub-regions and sub-sub-regions, whatever they are called locally, but in the end are they even relevant? Poland has no states, has 16 Voivodeships, like Germany has 16 Länder, Portugal has 18 distritos, all of each sub-divided into municipalities or similar, and those sub-sub-divided into smaller things. All of them are irrelevant for Waze, all of them have different names, and where one draws the line, at one division, or 4 like Portugal? Maybe one day there will be the country of Europe and the states of Poland, Portugal and Germany.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby petervdveen » Wed May 15, 2013 2:56 pm

berestovskyy wrote:
petervdveen wrote:Maybe wait for waze to start supporting such features before entering nonsense into WME ;-)

You might missed the "we need [...] to discuss and agree the syntax with Waze" in OP.

Okey, but adding things like this to the waze DB is a very bad idea.

Ofcourse it would be nice if there was a possibility to add some data but not like this.

About the features not working in Poland.
The U-turns function should work.
The Housenumbers should work.
The gas stations function can be enabled when there is enough data inserted.

The state function is being worked on, but for a lot of european countries that's not necessary.

EDIT:
And if you want to contact Waze about this, contact your champs or comunity manager.
They can forward it.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby edsonajj » Wed May 15, 2013 2:42 pm

I will comment on several of your examples

berestovskyy wrote:To improve TTS pronunciation:
Street: full street name Waze uses by default
Alt City: #tts Alt Street: if present, a spoken form of the street name for TTS

Example:
Street: CeBIT Street <- a name for search and to display
Alt City: #tts Alt Street: C. bit Street <- Waze uses this to correctly pronounce the street name

In general I like it; it would be better if the nuance voices worked correctly or Waze's adaptations considered cases where this is needed. As a stopgap, it's good.

berestovskyy wrote:To abbreviate long street names:
Street: full street name Waze uses by default
Alt City: #short Alt Street: if present, a short street name to display and to pronounce (if #tts is not there)

For instance:
Street: Estakada imienia generała brygady piłotów Mateusza Iżyckiego <- full name for search
Alt City: #short Alt Street: Estakada Iżyckiego <- short street name to display/pronounce

At least in México our rule for street naming is to use primarily whatever is on signs and I've never seen one as long as your example... I don't know if it is common in Poland. Still, assuming you have a similar situation I think the current system could handle it correctly with the Short/Common street name on the main field and the full one in the alternate.

berestovskyy wrote:To complement/disambiguate an address:
Street: full street name Waze uses by default
Alt City: #zip Alt Street: if present, a zip code Waze uses for search
Alt City: #province Alt Street: if present, a province name/code Waze uses for search
Alt City: #district Alt Street: if present, a district name Waze uses for search
etc

I think that all of these should be handled through separate fields.

Examples 5-10: This would be stretching the role of the alt name quite far... There is nothing to suggest that waze would start using this info, and in general when a new feature has been implemented previous data has not been migrated over (such as house numbers). And at least for road closures it can be handled by disconnecting the segments while they should not be used for navigation.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby davipt » Wed May 15, 2013 1:57 pm

berestovskyy wrote:
davipt wrote:Of course ideally should not be an abuse of the alt-city with freeform hashes, but a proper key-val alt-street (and even alt-city variations), but I do still hope it is a map with free values.

We agreed that we're talking about "Key-Values just like Alt street names", ok?


My point is just about either start using the current state and use the alt-city to put the hash vs. ask for a minimum development to add a new freeform field to enable alt-street = value + optional hash and, while at it, alt-city = value + optional hash.

berestovskyy wrote:Sure, we can wait for Waze to start supporting some feature, then wait while they fix it, then start to add it to the map, then wait for a decision to activate it in your country... For instance, neither of recent features like gas prices, house numbers, U-turns... neither is working here in Poland. We can't even use "state" fields in an address :(


Here you have a huge point. There are already so many cases of half-backed features that one more can't hurt. And if we, the community, stick to a format and start populating the data massively, waze can only see it as a strong push to get the feature completed and start consuming that data.
PS: house numbers and U-turns you are right, but gas prices it's all into your hands to get it enabled ;)

I'd rather like this approach than the ones I'm seeing at the moment, or in the past, where the community is asked for the opinion of a feature, in general, then waze goes back to the basement, implements something half-backed, launches it, and when we try to use it things don't work as expected.

There are plenty of cases on your examples that I think it's a big stretch and may even be abusing - closures, time based roads, etc, but all other cases about literal alternative-street-names I'm fully on board, namely the TTS override per voice/language, the street name per locale, the long/short alternative and the road shields name, including multiple shields and free form names - recall some of my streets are named N249-3, this can't fit a byte.
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