Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations etc

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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby davipt » Wed May 15, 2013 3:20 pm

petervdveen wrote:
davipt wrote:
petervdveen wrote:The U-turns function should work

Don't work at all in Portugal.

You cannot set U-turns?
You don't see the U-turn icon?

I have enabled U-Turns in certain places where I always do a U-turn. The client keeps sending me somewhere else to turn back. So no, U-turns don't work on the client.

petervdveen wrote:The Housenumbers should work.


Not working in Portugal. Search doesn't even use the internal street names, much less the house numbers.

Of course. The bing database is used. What do you suspect.
As stated lots of times before. This is just for data gathering till the moment the Waze DB will be used as primary data source.

These two cases are proof that there is already a tendency to allow editors to populate information even way before the information is used somewhere. Hence the idea of using the alt-street to start adding alternative street names, just with the caveat of tagging what type of alternative it is. I don't think anyone can say at all this is incorrect or unrelated usage. The only question, as I stated multiple times, is how to add the tag, if we wait for the field from waze, or if we abuse the alt-city in the meantime. I'd prefer the former.


petervdveen wrote:We have 12 provinces in the netherlands, but for navigating I don't see why I would need them.

Exactly. But they were enabled in Canada. And I'm afraid one day they get enabled in Europe, and people will start using the field for what it's not meant for. Just want us all to agree that State is something US only that should have never been exposed to other countries to avoid confusion.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby davipt » Wed May 15, 2013 3:06 pm

petervdveen wrote:About the features not working in Poland.
The U-turns function should work.


Don't work at all in Portugal.

petervdveen wrote:The Housenumbers should work.


Not working in Portugal. Search doesn't even use the internal street names, much less the house numbers.

petervdveen wrote:The gas stations function can be enabled when there is enough data inserted.

Correct :D

petervdveen wrote:The state function is being worked on, but for a lot of european countries that's not necessary.


The state is gonna be yet another feature that will be designed for a set of countries and have no meaning for the rest of the world. What is a state in most countries? Usually the country has administrative regions and sub-regions and sub-sub-regions, whatever they are called locally, but in the end are they even relevant? Poland has no states, has 16 Voivodeships, like Germany has 16 Länder, Portugal has 18 distritos, all of each sub-divided into municipalities or similar, and those sub-sub-divided into smaller things. All of them are irrelevant for Waze, all of them have different names, and where one draws the line, at one division, or 4 like Portugal? Maybe one day there will be the country of Europe and the states of Poland, Portugal and Germany.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby davipt » Wed May 15, 2013 1:57 pm

berestovskyy wrote:
davipt wrote:Of course ideally should not be an abuse of the alt-city with freeform hashes, but a proper key-val alt-street (and even alt-city variations), but I do still hope it is a map with free values.

We agreed that we're talking about "Key-Values just like Alt street names", ok?


My point is just about either start using the current state and use the alt-city to put the hash vs. ask for a minimum development to add a new freeform field to enable alt-street = value + optional hash and, while at it, alt-city = value + optional hash.

berestovskyy wrote:Sure, we can wait for Waze to start supporting some feature, then wait while they fix it, then start to add it to the map, then wait for a decision to activate it in your country... For instance, neither of recent features like gas prices, house numbers, U-turns... neither is working here in Poland. We can't even use "state" fields in an address :(


Here you have a huge point. There are already so many cases of half-backed features that one more can't hurt. And if we, the community, stick to a format and start populating the data massively, waze can only see it as a strong push to get the feature completed and start consuming that data.
PS: house numbers and U-turns you are right, but gas prices it's all into your hands to get it enabled ;)

I'd rather like this approach than the ones I'm seeing at the moment, or in the past, where the community is asked for the opinion of a feature, in general, then waze goes back to the basement, implements something half-backed, launches it, and when we try to use it things don't work as expected.

There are plenty of cases on your examples that I think it's a big stretch and may even be abusing - closures, time based roads, etc, but all other cases about literal alternative-street-names I'm fully on board, namely the TTS override per voice/language, the street name per locale, the long/short alternative and the road shields name, including multiple shields and free form names - recall some of my streets are named N249-3, this can't fit a byte.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby davipt » Tue May 14, 2013 9:58 am

Fully +1.

I'd add yet another tag for the "shields" to allow setting up the letter+number street number independently of the possible proper name when a street crosses a locality.

I'm sure it's pretty similar in most countries, but as an example in Portugal we have (N)ational roads and (M)unicipal roads called N-123 (or even N-123-3), but usually when it crosses a locality there's also a "Street xyz" or "Avenue zyx". Right now I'm using "Street xyz / N123", but it would be nice to put the "Street xyz" into the street field and the N123 into the "shield" tag and then have the shields (a simple square with a specific color per letter in most european countries) appear automatically.

Update: didn't read carefully the OP. I'm +1 for Waze supported tags and proper behavior of alt names for dedicated things, but I would never suggest starting right now abusing the current alt feature with those hashtags on the city name.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby berestovskyy » Tue May 28, 2013 11:09 am

davipt wrote:I'll repeat myself again. Go to maps.bing.com,

I'll repeat myself too then :lol: We have neither Bing nor Google search available here in Poland. Neither for cities nor for house numbers :( Just internal Waze search and Foursquare.

davipt wrote:If you search for Rudnik you should get all 15, sorted by distance.

Now I'm getting just 10, sorted irrelevant to the distance or even country. So searching for "Rudnik", for instance, I always get at the top "Rudnik, Serbia"/658 km away.

I've posted some screenshots here (forum topic Searching for Non-unique City Names in Poalnd).

Thanks!
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby berestovskyy » Tue May 28, 2013 9:15 am

argus-cronos wrote:We suffering and complaining also since years, but waze is about to improve the search. We will see.

Will this improved search help me to find a city named "City (county)" on the map if I search for "City, province" in the App?

Will this search give me more that 10 results, because we have ~15 "Rudniks" in Poland?

Since I can't even read your closed forums, can I ask you to ask Waze that it will? ;)

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby berestovskyy » Tue May 28, 2013 8:19 am

argus-cronos wrote:What you have to do depends on your community, and your country guidelines.

Here in Poland we name non-unique cities as "City (province)" or "City (county)" or "City (commune)" (just like on Wikipedia). But it's not a problem to name a city. The problem is to find a city.

When you run a search for "City" in Waze App, instead of getting a list of those "City (provice)", "City (county)" etc. you get just "City", but 650 km away in another country, for instance.

I should start a separate topic about that. We have no local champs and we suffering and complaining for years about this problem. But now it's clear to me that most of you guys don't even aware about it...

Thanks for the idea though! I'll give it a try to put just "City" in alt city field, so maybe it will help with the search ;)
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby berestovskyy » Tue May 28, 2013 6:04 am

argus-cronos wrote:Waze btw gives altnames as search results.

Do you mean we have to put "City (province)" into city field and then just "City" into an alt. city field to get this city found?
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby berestovskyy » Mon May 20, 2013 10:30 am

Thanks for your answers and here is my summary:
  1. To adjust some of non-common segment properties, we suggest to implement Key-Value pairs. We have no intention to use these properties for the vast majority or the roads.
  2. These Key-Values available for 3+ or 5+ cones editors only.
  3. Waze can implement it in a way they like:
    • as a separate Key-Value systems, just like Alternate names;
    • adding a Key to existing Alternate Names, so they would become "Key, Alt City (Value 1), Alt Street (Value 2)";
    • using existing Alt City as a Key and Alt Street as a Value or vice-versa;
    • as separate fields in WME, available for 3+ or 5+ cones editors only;
    • or any other way (it is not really important).
  4. The most controversial part: how could we benefit from these properties? Here are the most reasonable applications at the moment IMHO:
    1. To correct TTS pronunciation, using, for instance, Nuance phoneme set (Nuance Grammar Developer's Guide (PDF), page 85). So, if the property is attached to a road segment, Waze App use it to pronounce the street name.
    2. To put shields on the map (Waze is about to implement this, so details are subject to further discussion).
    3. To handle planned road closures (i.e., closed-until) and time-restricted turns (Waze is about to implement this, so details are subject to further discussion).
We also assume that:
  1. Alt streets will be available for search, so we don't need a "short name" property.
  2. Waze (or someone else) to suggest better idea to localize map data.
  3. Waze to implement zip codes/administrative divisions in (some) countries as separate fields in address block.
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Re: Alternate street names for TTS, zip codes, abbreviations

Postby berestovskyy » Wed May 15, 2013 10:13 pm

Regarding gas stations. Well, unfortunately in Poland we have gaps in Aerials, so it's not easy to map streets, not to mention gas stations and house numbers :(

And we have house numbers with letters, odd and even numbers on the same side of the street etc. Neither Bing nor Google address searches work here. Waze search does not work too.

As to administrative division. We have many villages and towns with the same name, and even two counties with the same name. So, we have issues naming and searching them. We asked about administrative division few times.

I'm glad there are countries which are happy with Waze as it is. All I'm trying here is to change Waze a bit, so we could also enjoy it as you are ;)

Thanks everyone for your feedback!
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