Post Reply
Forum rules
The place to ask for help when editing in the UK.

Map Editing Guidelines . Join the UK Discord Server

Defining Ramp Names, Again

Post by Timbones
Every couple of years, I stick my hand up and suggest that our ramp names could be better. That time has round again :D

Rationale
Why? Drivers need to have concise and accurate instructions that match the signs they see out of the window. Our current ramp naming strategy focuses too much on the names of the following roads, and cardinal directions, which often doesn't match the signage. So, I propose something that is radically different, but hopefully more useful for drivers.

Generally
  • Ramp names to be short, useful and non-ambiguous.
  • No more "Junction to" or "Entry to". We just want to hear "... onto A34".
  • Only include cardinals if they are listed on approaching signs.
  • The '>' character will be read out as 'towards', followed by the name of a city.
  • Entry and Exit should be considered equal for the purposes of naming, and should be named to give the most useful instruction to the driver.
Junctions with numbers:
  • All numbered junctions should have a ramp (to give 'exit' instruction) with a name starting with that number, and then the name of the road it goes to (e.g. J11 to A123). Ideally without cardinals if possible.
  • Motorway splits should have short 'wayfinder' ramps so that these names don't appear on the map.
  • No junction numbers on entry ramps.
Junctions without numbers:
  • If ramps connect directly to exactly 1 other road, then they can both be left unnamed so they naturally take on the name of the next segment.
  • However, it might be desirable to name the ramps more simply to remove cardinals or road names. For example, "onto A1" instead of the mouthful that is "onto A1(M) (N)" or "onto A1 - Great North Road".
  • If the ramp connects to a roundabout, then an unnamed segment will often give optimal instructions. However, need to be careful where routes off of the roundabout are not signed from the main road. In this case, ramp should be named to match the exit signs.
Disambiguation
  • Where a ramp forks into two directions, then the ramp names should include cardinals (if signed) or "towards a city" based on the sign. For example: A1 to M62 has "M62 > Hull" and "M62 > Manchester". Note: ">" is only to be used when needed, not every ramp.
  • Only one city from the sign is to be used, preferably the one which is listed first.
    On the M25, where relevant, directions to Heathrow or Gatwick should take precedence.
  • If the section of ramp before the fork is particularly short, then the preceding segment can be left unnamed with the junction number written in the forked segments. This does result in longer announcements, so should be avoided if possible.
  • Where both directions of a road are connected to from a roundabout, then ramps can be disambiguated using "> city" instead of cardinals, as per signage.
Examples to follow. Any questions, objections or suggestions?


Note: this is just a proposal - please don't rush out to rename all your local ramps just yet...
Timbones
Coordinators
Coordinators
Posts: 7358
Answers: 2
Answers: 2
Has thanked: 954 times
Been thanked: 2916 times

POSTER_ID:1445148

1

Send a message
Timbones(6) • UK Coordinator • Forum Moderator • Closure Monitor
Scripts: WME Colour HighlightsWME Route TesterWME Geometries

Post by PealRinger
Still get's my vote for two main reasons:
  • Instructions should be short and clear - annoys me every time I hear 'on to entry to'
  • Instructions should match the signs
I've used the new format already in response to URs in a couple of place where ramps split and have seen no further reports at those junctions, e.g. A35/A326 junction
PealRinger
PartnerCoordinator
PartnerCoordinator
Posts: 1984
Has thanked: 226 times
Been thanked: 696 times
Send a message

Post by RobertKlosSpeedy
Is there as well a proposal to show the Ramp Name in a more graphic version. So that it displays the sign next to or over the highway? (like you see in other nav's or nav apps)
RobertKlosSpeedy
Area Manager
Area Manager
Posts: 17
Has thanked: 6 times
Send a message

Post by seriousarsonist
I pretty much agree with that but I would like to suggest a differentiation for NI. We tend to get something like 'Blaris off slip city bound' on the traffic reports. So having our ramps named as such with the > for direction would make more sense, sort of anyway. All junctions are numbered and named so 'Junction X whatever off slip something bound' would be nice but I know that wouldn't fit with the rest of the U.K.

Other than that I'm all for it as it makes more sense to the driver.

Pip


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
seriousarsonist
Posts: 1059
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 151 times
Send a message

Post by seriousarsonist
No it doesn't match what they'd see but then they would only see junction numbers to another road... So meh...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
seriousarsonist
Posts: 1059
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 151 times
Send a message

Post by seriousarsonist
I agree with dropping the 'on to' not just from ramps but from every instruction. It's wasted as people would rarely say it if giving directions. 'To' would be better for driving but the 'arriving on to' is wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
seriousarsonist
Posts: 1059
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 151 times
Send a message

Post by seriousarsonist
ditchi56 wrote:I'm in favour of the proposed change. In particular, when I'm joining the M1 (N) or whatever, I want to be told to be turn onto the "em one north" not the "entry to em one north". (Or "em one towards city" if that better reflects the signage).
if we go for that the word 'for' might be a much better one to use "Exit left for Coventry", "Exit left for em one north"

I know 'to' is more correct for a final destination but natural English would prefer 'for' or 'for the'. I doubt HQ will wish to make a differentiation change so we can have 'to' used if it is a destination name and 'for (the)' if it is another road.
seriousarsonist
Posts: 1059
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 151 times
Send a message

Post by seriousarsonist
I vote for the original proposal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
seriousarsonist
Posts: 1059
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 151 times
Send a message

Post by SlartiMcFast
I have a basic suggestion/request. The voice enunciating struggles with ramp numbers followed by letters, such as 781B. I suspect this could be an easy fix by using a <space> before the letter i.e. 781 B. As a level 1 I'm not able to test this.
SlartiMcFast
Posts: 1
Send a message

Post by TheMKLightning
As ever, thanks for you hard work behind these proposals.
In principle, I am in complete agreement. I have 3 queries detailed below:
Timbones wrote:Examples:

1. Here's a restricted junction that only goes to (and from) the A659, so ramps can be unnamed. Users won't even get an instruction to enter the A64.
I agree with the naming regime for this example but feel that the ramp should actually be whatever the road type is. In this case the ramps are the A659 from beginning to end so should be type Minor Highway.
Timbones wrote:4. A typical roundabout junction. Exit ramps have two A roads on them as listed on the signs, even though there's also a B road (not signed).
I can't see any road numbers on these ramps
Timbones wrote:6. This motorway split will announce: "Exit left onto Junction 41 to M62" and then either "Keep left onto M62 towards Hull" or "Keep right onto M62 towards Manchester".
If we're trying to keep the instructions as simple as possible would it be better for exit ramps at junctions to say "Exit left Junction 41 to M62" rather than "Exit left onto Junction 41 to M62"? That won't work will it, because the "onto" comes automatically with the "keep left".
TheMKLightning
Area Manager
Area Manager
Posts: 764
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 113 times
Send a message
https://www.waze.com/wiki/images/7/76/W ... 00k_4c.png
AM for West Wales Rheolwr Ardal Cymru Gorllewin