Proposed update to the wiki - UK Quickstart page

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Proposed update to the wiki - UK Quickstart page

Postby woodvale » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:28 pm

Edited: name changed to reflect subject now about UK Quickstart page

The How to Label Cities section on Postal vs Actual Addresses lists, as an example, Bromley (Kent) which is in the LB Bromley. However, as that Bromley is the largest town of that name in the UK, the rules dictate that it should drop the (County) suffix and, on the map, we show it as "Bromley".

Ditto Enfield, which the wiki refers to as Enfield (Middx), but which is only seen on the map as "Enfield", although there is a set of streets with the city set to Enfield (Middlesex) just north-west of Gordon Hill on the map, and as an alt name on Myddleton Ave in Forty Hill.

The other example given in the wiki is Hornchurch, and Hornchurch and South Hornchurch, both in Essex, are the only Hornchurches in the UK, so don't need a suffix, meaning we have a slightly misleading set of examples.

We do have a couple of good examples - Belmont in LB Harrow, and Belmont in LB Sutton. The Sutton version is correctly shown on the map as Belmont (Surrey). The Barnet version is shown as Belmont (London) where it should be Belmont (Middx) according to the Gazetteer. There are quite a few other Belmonts around the country, and I have no idea which could claim to be the largest.

As Belmont is a good example of the Postal vs Actual Addresses scenario, can I suggest that we drop the use of Bromley, Enfield and Hornchurch, and amend the wiki to use the Belmont examples.

What do people think?
Last edited by woodvale on Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Proposed update to the wiki - How to label cities page

Postby seriousarsonist » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:00 pm

Terribly sorry but what does LB stand for? I'm guessing local borough but not really sure.

Probably just my NI confused self as it is a bit different here (we'd need some very different and rather complicated rules)
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Proposed update to the wiki - How to label cities page

Postby woodvale » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:42 am

LB = London Borough. That section of the wiki highlighted that the issue was common around London where postal addresses use the counties of Middlesex, Essex, Kent and so on. I presume there are similar examples around Birmingham, Manchester and other conurbations where new local authority boundaries were drawn without postal addresses changing.


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Proposed update to the wiki - How to label cities page

Postby richardjeeves » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:25 pm

Hi all...
For the parts of Hornchurch I can edit (edge of my area) I've already dropped (Essex) suffix along with nearby Romford... Rainham keeps its suffix because of rainham in Kent...
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Re: Proposed update to the wiki - How to label cities page

Postby Timbones » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:49 pm

woodvale is right - we do need better examples on that page that use "cities with counties".
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Re: Proposed update to the wiki - How to label cities page

Postby DG567 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:01 am

If the page is edited, could the Gazetteer be added to the list of resources at the same time?
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Re: Proposed update to the wiki - How to label cities page

Postby woodvale » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:54 pm

If people aren't expressing their opposition to my updating the wiki, I'll do so over the next couple of days. It'll give me an excuse to get away from the family for a few hours :D
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Re: Proposed update to the wiki - How to label cities page

Postby iainhouse » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:22 am

No objections here!
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Proposed update to the wiki - How to label cities page

Postby seriousarsonist » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:31 pm

Go for it!
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Re: Proposed update to the wiki - How to label cities page

Postby woodvale » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:56 pm

Done.

I can't see a way of making it a draft page which could then be reviewed by the CMs before publication, so it's there, warts and all. If there is a way of producing a draft which I can make available for review, please let me know.

I'd be grateful for feedback, as I'd like to suggest some changes to the UK Quickstart - Basics that every editor should know section to try and make it clear to new editors that they're generally not starting on a map that's never been touched. Where they are, naming roads and so on, fine, but when they're proposing to make changes in city suburbs because they know their area well, so do others, and they need to make use of the forum and PMs to communicate with the previous editors and discuss their proposed changes.

There have been two instances recently where I've had to PM new editors about some of the changes they've made. I've tried to be polite and non-critical, but they've changed the map and undone things that I and others have done for good reasons, so their changes have had to be undone. The new editors both took exception to this, considered it overly-critical and bullying by more experienced editors, and have apparently taken their keyboards and left. This was not a result I expected or intended, and if we've lost two editors who could have been very useful, I'm sorry for that. If the wiki can push communication between editors, perhaps we can avoid such conflicts again.
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