Citys vs Wards vs Parishes vs Post Town for "Road Names"

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Re: Citys vs Wards vs Parishes vs Post Town for "Road Names"

Postby Dave2084 » Wed May 07, 2014 6:31 am

iainhouse wrote:One of these days, I really must write all this up into a Wiki page. :ugeek:


Cut and paste of most of the above should do it :D
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Re: Citys vs Wards vs Parishes vs Post Town for "Road Names"

Postby iainhouse » Tue May 06, 2014 11:48 pm

First off, as far as the format of City names goes, I think the Wiki is pretty clear. "Bordon; Whitehill" and "Bordon, Whitehill" are both wrong. Format-wise, "Bordon (Whitehill)" would be correct.

Next, comes the matter of whether or not to use a simple name or add a qualifier. The first thing to look at is how many Bordons there are in the UK. The Gazetteer of British Place Names (linked in the Wiki) is the first place to check. In the case of Bordon, there is only one so you can stop there - just name it Bordon. Unfortunately for you, dear reader, I'm not going to stop there. :lol:

If there are multiple Bordons, then you need to have a look at each one and decide which is the biggest. Hopefully one will be obvious! That's the one that gets labelled just "Bordon". All other Bordens should have a qualifier of either county (e.g. Bordon (Hants)) or city if it's a suburb (e.g. Bordon (London)). Sometimes, you'll find that Bordon has been used on a tiny village halfway across the country! When that happens, you generally give up and use Bordon (Hants) anyway, even if it's the biggest one. Swapping the names is more trouble than it's worth.

To decide which qualifier you should be using, use the OS Opendata map. In the Boundary Layer menu turn on "County, Unitary Authority and Metropolitan". This is the basis for the data we have supplied Waze for counties in the UK - coming real soon. :evil: Your qualifier should be one of these areas. So, in your example, "Whitehill (Bordon)" would be incorrect - it should be "Whitehill (Hants)".

As for the landmark: landmarks generally "pick up" their city name from nearby streets. It's quite possible that "Borden" has been spread too far in the past. Then someone has "trimmed it back" on segments but missed the city name on the landmark.

How detailed to get? There are no rules - just opinions. :( That's mainly because there is no officially available source of locality names that really works in all circumstances. Local knowledge helps immensely - with many towns that I have edited heavily without visiting, I have mostly left city names alone so as to let locals make the decision. Some things you can consider when deciding whether to subdivide a town are
  • Would someone living 5 miles away know the name?
  • Are there any signposts for that locality?
  • Would local radio report traffic or an incident in "locality"?

I'll mention boundaries as well - another difficult thing to pin down. In London, a single postcode may well cover 3 or 4 distinct localities that should sensibly appear separately on the map, whilst a postcode in the Highlands may cover an enormous area. The OS names that pull through into the WMEOpenData script can be very accurate in Wales, yet in the rest of the country they may bear little relation to actual town/village/suburb boundaries. Things I look for when deciding on where to end city names include:
  • A visible end to the buildings on the aerials
  • Red tarmac bands on the road where the speed limit changes from 60 to 30 at the edge of villages
  • Village name or "Welcome to..." signs in StreetView - which are generally where the red bands appear
  • Rivers, railway lines or other "barriers" that have to be driven around
  • Postcode boundaries in large towns/cities. Postcodes have been around a long time and don't change often.
  • Ring roads or bypasses
  • Not electoral ward boundaries. These get changed by political whim, regardless of where the locals might say they live

You're sorry you asked now, aren't you? One of these days, I really must write all this up into a Wiki page. :ugeek:
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Citys vs Wards vs Parishes vs Post Town for "Road Names"

Postby wolfsbane2k » Tue May 06, 2014 1:18 pm

Hi.

Following a bit of an oddity on naming conventions here (Is it Bordon; Whitehill; Bordon, Whitehil; etc), https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... 30&env=row

I've noticed a number of inconsisitencies on how I've been handling "Citys" in the Road names, and i'm not sure the wiki is clear about it. (https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/How_to_label ... Kingdom%29)

In the above example, the landmark is "Whitehill Cemetery", but it has a Bordon Postal Address - So what do i put it down as?

Ditto, trying to define this area (https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=2&lat ... 78&env=row), we've used a mixture of the local parishes - Cowplain, Horndean, Lovedean etc, that' aren't recognized by the Royal Mail, (postal town is Waterlooville) but "Clanfield", slightly further to the north is formally "Clanfield, Waterlooville".

What are people's opinions on this?

I've currently defined Horndean to the Parish Boundary, but not sure if this is correct or not. Do we care?
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Re: Citys vs Wards vs Parishes vs Post Town for "Road Names"

Postby wolfsbane2k » Wed May 07, 2014 8:05 am

iainhouse wrote:You're sorry you asked now, aren't you? One of these days, I really must write all this up into a Wiki page. :ugeek:


Thank you for that very detailed answer, and no, i'm not sorry at all! As Dave2084 says, that's the wiki page written up :)

On to the points made in the post.

As you say, these things can be very tense on these borders, and it's actually what drew me to the question in the waterlooville area, as someone had highlighted that their village of Cowplain was not showing on the Waze Map, as it's been subsumed into Waterlooville.

So:
1) Yes, I agree that "Whitehill, Bordon", as it currently stands is incorrect, and it should be "Whitehill (Hants)", and it's on my list of things to change, when I get an hour or 2. It was meant more as a comparative statement, of (Semi colon seperate list) Whitehall (Bordon); Bordon; or "Whitehill and Bordon" as the GSV sign shows here?

2) WRT to the Cemetary, Which is titled "Whitehill Cemetary", should it be placed in "Bordon", which seems wrong, Whitehill, which will smudge the existing "Whitehill (Hants)" which it's not clearly part of, or "no City?"

3) Discussing the Waterlooville area, do we need to be careful in breaking down any towns into "villages" where suburban conurbations have become merged , so it we ever use Waze City data for address lookups it's potential not to find places. The OS Map Data doesn't clearly define these "settlements", so geographic boundaries are a pain. Is there a minimum area size of a settlement that we should be aiming for in such an example ( This area is currently "missing" the once villages of HartPlain and Cowplain) ( Or is this something that we don't actually care about, and i'm being pedantic?)

Anyway, best start that Whitehill (Hants) re-name & validation.
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