Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby Xenon2020 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:21 am

I noticed this problem yesterday. Personally I would not count Under the Wood as an exit on the roundabout. Coming south on the A404 it is very easy to miss the exit to Under the Wood and therefore would not be counted as an exit by most users. Therefore taking the 3rd exit when coming south most would head towards Marlow as this is the 3rd exit on the road signs.
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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby CTCNetwork » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:48 pm

Hi,

Yes, I have had this experience on the A610 roundabout (Nuthall Island). A central road exists but if it is connected and you follow the A610 through to nottingham you get a 4th exit for the exit onto the A610 and a raft of UR's complaining that it is the 3rd exit for the A610 when it actually isnt. Most people discount the exith thy have driven past that is on the inside of the roundabout.

So actually it does work, it just depends on your perspective and point of view.. :D

Des. . . ;)
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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby Twister-UK » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:56 pm

Timbones wrote:
Twister-UK wrote:I thought sharing roundabout nodes was still a no-no due to the risk of triggering a 0th exit error?

No it doesn't, it just messes up the node counting.


Good to know, thanks.
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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby wolfsbane2k » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:52 am

We have a similar issue here:
https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... 09&env=row

where the petrol station is on the roundabout, but doesn't get drawn on the signs. It looks like PealRinger and I have inadvertently umm'd , ahh'd and see-sawed about this one as well, as we end up with the junction numbering being off as well.
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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby Timbones » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:35 am

Twister-UK wrote:I thought sharing roundabout nodes was still a no-no due to the risk of triggering a 0th exit error?

No it doesn't, it just messes up the node counting.
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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby Superfraggle » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:35 am

It's should be avoided, but there are legitimate cases such as here

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... layers=901

Where you are not allowed to take the first exit, when coming west down the A2, but you can go round the roundabout.
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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby Twister-UK » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:30 am

ditchi56 wrote:
AndyPot2 wrote:one solution would be to connect Under the Wood to the same node as the A308

Here's an example of a roundabout with two roads connected to the same node, if you want to play and test the exit counts. I think it has the effect you want.


I thought sharing roundabout nodes was still a no-no due to the risk of triggering a 0th exit error?
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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby Twister-UK » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:05 am

AndyPot2 wrote:I believe one solution would be to connect Under the Wood to the same node as the A308 Marlow Road. I think that will put the exit count back to 4 which should satisfy most Waze users. Looking at the road geometry I suspect that Under the Wood was originally connected to the same node as the A308 but has recently (quite correctly) been disconnected and that is why it is now mapping differently.


As the editor responsible for the recent change, here's my reasoning behind it...

In the previous layout, Under the Wood was connected to the southbound one-way segment of the A308, so anyone navigating to UtW would be given slightly dodgy directions to take the nth exit onto the A308 and then turn left, rather than simply taking the nth exit directly into UtW as the real road layout requires. This in itself wouldn't be that big a deal.


More of an issue for me, and the reason I made the change, is that when I'm negotiating a roundabout with directions to leave at the nth exit, I count the actual exits as I drive round rather than counting the nth exit on whatever signage is present leading up to the roundabout and then trying to match what the sign showed with what I see as I proceed around the roundabout. Sometimes the signage presented at each exit doesn't match up with the signage present on the approach, sometimes there isn't any exit signage at all, and sometimes I've simply forgotten what the approach signage said I ought to be seeing on the exit signage :oops:

Counting the actual exits on the other hand generally is pretty foolproof. Granted, there are a few exceptions where you might find an exit stub built in readiness for further roadbuilding that hasn't yet taken place (or never will), or a no-entry road joining the roundabout whos geometry gives the impression that it could also be an exit if you miss seeing the no entry signs or road markings. However, in my experience you're more likely to come a cropper relying on the signage matching up all around the roundabout than you are by counting the visible exits, and in this particular example the UtW exit is sufficiently clear as an exit in its own right that failing to include it in the exit count seems more wrong than leaving it out just to appease whichever muppet at the Highways Agency decided that UtW didn't even deserve the tiniest of stubs on any of the approach signage.

Note also that every alternative mapping source I've checked so far shows UtW as a seperate exit off the roundabout, and as several of those sources are used by other navaids/route planners then it's not just Wazers who get given exit counts that match up with the actual exits but not the approach signage. Not saying that just because everyone else maps it that way that it's the correct way to map it, but given the real world layout of the roundabout I think this is one of those cases where we ought to say stuff the signage, it's what's on the ground that counts.
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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby ditchi56 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:01 pm

MsDizzie wrote:Thanks for the answers ditchi56 (I'm still learning)

Me too!
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Re: Is it Acceptable to Map a Roundabout Incorrectly?

Postby MsDizzie » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:15 pm

Thanks for the answers ditchi56 (I'm still learning)
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