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Waze community standards- from Level 1 Strathpine

Post by GarvinGray
I have decided to split this from the Level 1 Strathpine thread as it involves Waze community standards. Two editors, DeadontheFloor and myself have received a public warning from glomp regarding our calling of 'BS' on a claim from another editor.

So I am now bringing up the issue of waze community standards and a particular issue I have with the editor who has issued the 'warning' for further discussion in a new thread.
glomp wrote:AT ALL EDITORS: I suggest that you have a look at the Wiki and refresh yourselves with the forum rules and etiquette.
It doesn’t matter what level you are or claim you were, if you cannot abide by the community guidelines then I suggest you find something else to do with your time.
Being O/S at the moment, I have limited internet access currently otherwise I would link the relevant articles you need to reread.
Learn to search, find the information and read it. It will make things a lot easier for you!
I decided to take some time, see what the response from others would be and then reply with my own thoughts.

Whilst most times it is helpful to be civil and keep to the relevant discussion, but there are times when as an editor, if you believe another editor is making such outlandish claims, they do need to be called out on it.

Therefore, I disagree with your post in both its nature and tenure. You have only made the post after two editors decided to ask the original editor to prove their claim. If this did not occur and the original editor's claim was let go through, then you would not have been making your post and would not have had any issues with an editor making false claims on the forum.

Your issue is solely with other editors calling them out.

Therefore, since you have decided to put the stick in the ground and mark the goals at this point for community standards, I am then raising a wide ranging objection to how our communications have gone since I decided to become a waze editor. I have found your guidance to guite often be belittling and you assume that the other editor has knowledge that they do not possess and when the other editor says they do not understand, your responses get shorter and I find that I am less inclined to engage.

For some other Qld editors, this is actually not news, but it might most likely is for you.

So, when seeking assistance where I need to be taught something, I have learnt through painful experience that I am better off going to almost any other editor than yourself.

To now be lectured on community standards by yourself, when all two of us have done is call out an editor for making what we believe is a BS claim is rather an over-reaction.
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As waze editors, our role is to map based on what is legal. It is the job of councils and governments to determine whether or not a turn or other similar 'risky' situations should be permitted based on risk assessments performed by people much more qualified than us to do so.

This point is not up for discussion, never has been and never will be.

Re: Waze community standards- from Level 1 Strathpine

Post by B_Carp
I'll stick my head in too, then close the door behind me. I'm with Burdo25 & would suggest this be discussed in private.

I have had no issues with any of you fine folk here, but I had a read of that other thread. I completely missed PMG801's joke & thought it was a serious claim. At no point did I think GarvinGray was being disrespectful when viewed in context of PMG801's claim. And I don't think glomp's post was necessarily directed at GarvinGray as I think has been suggested in the first post of this current thread.

It's possible that I may have missed something else that was mentioned in a PM perhaps.
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Re: Waze community standards- from Level 1 Strathpine

Post by Burdo25
Guys,

I have no idea what’s going on here and I know this does not concern me one bit, but I say this respectfully.

Is this an issue that could be discussed off the floor, ie not in a public forum? I’d hate for someone to say something that later, you may regret in the heat of the moment.

I’ll now slowly walk backwards and close the door behind me. :?
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Re: Waze community standards- from Level 1 Strathpine

Post by DeadOnTheFloor
I have limited internet access currently otherwise I would link the relevant articles you need to reread.

This is the problem in my opinion. If you read by 'goodbye and thanks for all the fish' post, you would have noted I took a dig at someone for 'linking wikis' rather than helping.

Linking wiki's doesn't do anything helpful.

It is the equivalent of being asked questions and replying with 'the answers on the internet' or "google it".

These last few flare-ups, which sadly I have been primary in without trying, are examples where a strong leadership team would have taken control of the situation before it deteriorated.

How many more editors have to say "and this is why I left" before we take control and work at redesigning our country leadership team.

Decisions are being left to people who don't like to make any.

As far as a public warning goes, that wasn't a warning. That is the way in which we deal with problems. We link a wiki.

If it was meant to be a warning, then it should have been delivered via a PM where it can be responded to without the added insult, of having the mob chime in.

FeelsbadBarnaby.
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Re: Waze community standards- from Level 1 Strathpine

Post by DeadOnTheFloor
PMG801 wrote:
On a side note, since I started here, I continually am getting more difficult on purpose with both you GG & DoTF due to your constant poor attitude towards other contributors of lower level and the constant need to bicker.
A few proofs would be appreciated for these claims.

Interactions with you are tainted, as you have stated already you have been deliberately obtuse.

So if there is an adjustment required, then it needs to happen. Please provide some proofs as to this 'constant' 'poor attitude'.

I'm calling bullshit on you again.
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Re: Waze community standards- from Level 1 Strathpine

Post by F1r3foxx
I would hope that everyone would say they want a supportive environment.
When there are differences of opinion, points of view, knowledge, personality or misunderstandings, sometimes this seems to get forgotten.
It is important to remember that everyone has the same goal in the end, which is trying to improve the Waze maps.
It is important to remember that there are and will be differences of opinion and points of view, and there sometimes (often) is not a single, black and white answer to an issue.
It is important to remember that some people have thick skins and some don't. Have a bit of empathy and see things from the other side. One person might be trying to help, another may see it as no help at all.
It is important to remember that everyone is donating their time, and no one owes you anything, and you don't owe anyone (or Waze) anything, except common, decent courtesy.
It is important to remember that we should treat others and we would want to be treated ourselves, and that personal attacks or treating each other poorly is so far from being warranted here it is not funny.
It is important to remember, that what you are arguing about (initially) isn't that important at the end of the day.

Life is too short to get stressed about this stuff. There are plenty of other things that warrant more angst that WME.

Have constructive discussions, sort things out privately, post publicly if it is warranted - all things that are pretty straight forward. But my advice would be to don't let it get to you, move on and don't let it get to you.

We shouldn't be getting to a point where there is such frustration, or people leaving because it is all too hard.
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Re: Waze community standards- from Level 1 Strathpine

Post by GarvinGray
Since my initial post here, there have been a few private messages going back and forth between certain participants and relevant people.

I have chosen not to say anything further on this thread because my post was addressing one subject, one community leader and what I am still now of the opinion was a double standard being applied.

I have been waiting for glomp to reply to my post out of courtesy. It was his moderating actions and then ps_au's further backing up of those actions that started this thread.

I had my say and so it was only respectful that glomp be given ample opportunity to respond back to my post. And no reply has come.

We talk about building a supportive community environment, but how are we supposed to build a supportive community environment when some editor express severe reservations about the conduct of those in charge, and instead of receiving a reply, they are ignored and other posters decide to jump on the bandwagon and egg on the original person who started all the trouble in the first place?

itaujr, since you have brought up some of the latest headlines, and that is what I call them for a reason, which I will explain, they all have a beginning trademark.

Those who first blew the whistle and complained about the conduct in those institutions were either run out of town, lost their jobs, had their careers ruined, sued or even worse.

Since you had decided to take the sunlight is the best disinfectant approach to this topic- this was my private message I sent a couple of days ago to a few high ranking Qld editors. Seems like getting discussion on this topic is extremely difficult.
I have taken quite a lot of offense to being told to learn waze community standards when I had put in heaps of hours teaching PMG about how waze works, how the wiki's are arranged, how we edit different roads.

From my perspective, PMG started to turn nasty when he asked if Kingsford Smith Drive could be divided and I spent a couple of hours going through the wiki on when to undivide and divide a road and explained in great detail that the road should stay undivided.

theclem also replied with his opinion on the matter.

I still continued to unlock streets for him and then I requested Mains Road to be undivided. After making my case, he wanted to do it and I replied back that I had already made my case and also as one of the highest trafficked level 3 roads in SE Queensland, it should be undivided by someone who is experienced in undividing in roads.

And then he decided to start antagonising further by not accepting any explanations from myself.

The final straw came when PMG was upset about Ave not pronouncing correctly on the Gold Coast. After a bit of discussion, he was told that as nothing had been done about changing the TTS to Av, he had free reign to change all the Street abbreviations to Ave as he saw fit. So he was given everything he asked for. Now instead of getting on with editing, he decided to find another thread and start another discussion on this point.

It was at about this point that I said on the open forum that I will no longer spend any time editing for him.

And that is when he cracked the shits and we have seen the outcome.

And we got the results in the Stanley St onto Vulture St turn, where I called BS on his claims and wanted proof, then when he could not produce any, he claimed it was all a joke and I was the sucker. Yes, I was the sucker, for answering him in the first place.

But overall, in my opinion, the biggest suckers have been glomp and ps_au for admonishing DOTF and myself for not cowering to a bully and someone who was intent on trolling as much as he could. Instead he got rewarded.

If waze community standards are to be invoked, then one of those standards surely has to be to question the judgement of those who are supposed to be leaders, because at the moment I find them sorely lacking.
Or maybe it is because the truth hurts.

Now if you want to take my reply as not embracing your lets all be friends logo, then I apologise, but I would rather put my opinion and facts on the table, rather than hide in the corner and be afraid to state my opinion because other might get their noses out of joint.
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Last edited by GarvinGray on Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
As waze editors, our role is to map based on what is legal. It is the job of councils and governments to determine whether or not a turn or other similar 'risky' situations should be permitted based on risk assessments performed by people much more qualified than us to do so.

This point is not up for discussion, never has been and never will be.

Re: Waze community standards- from Level 1 Strathpine

Post by GarvinGray
To those who would have rather had this handled in private, I agree to a certain extent.

But what I agree with is that the initial sending of a message to DOTF, PMG and myself about waze community standards and an explanation with further discussion was done by private message, not sent across the open forum, with a message and references to wiki links.

This is how it came across as- Oh you don't know what to do. Google it, idiot. I know from speaking to DOTF, that is how both of us have taken it. And whilst it is possible that that was not the intent, when you are setting the waze community standards, perception quite often equals reality.
GarvinGray
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As waze editors, our role is to map based on what is legal. It is the job of councils and governments to determine whether or not a turn or other similar 'risky' situations should be permitted based on risk assessments performed by people much more qualified than us to do so.

This point is not up for discussion, never has been and never will be.

Re: Waze community standards- from Level 1 Strathpine

Post by PMG801
You created a thread because a joke went over your head? Very mature.

On a side note, since I started here, I continually am getting more difficult on purpose with both you GG & DoTF due to your constant poor attitude towards other contributors of lower level and the constant need to bicker.
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