U-turn editing?

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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby triordan » Mon May 09, 2016 5:18 pm

@PesachZ

Do you still need that first UR at the BBDowns Intersection open? Or are we thinking that's the same issue?

PL: https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lo ... emFilter=0
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby fjsawicki » Mon May 09, 2016 5:26 pm

We've gone over 7 days since our last response on either UR so I'm wondering it it isn't time to close them both?

I did drop a tagged UR ([NOTE]) there explaining that we have had a couple of failures and asking other to please report any future failures in this forum.
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Median U-Turn Routing Bug

Postby ruggles76 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:01 pm

Ran across a UR where the routing engine doesn't seem to be following the rules for median u-turn prevention. All the rule are satisfied, 3 segments, in/out opposite in direction, exactly parallel, 13m median, should prohibit U-turn.

You can see enough of the routing to know it wasn't right after starting navigation or recalculating. And as far as routing penalties are concerned, there is an obvious alternative with a penalty that would only be trivially higher than the u-turn would be if legal.

Haven't been able to reproduce it in LM or the app, but it obviously happened. Maybe just a random error, but posting here in case anyone has ideas, or at least to document the issue.

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Last edited by ruggles76 on Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Median U-Turn Routing Bug

Postby taco909 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:21 am

ruggles76 wrote:Ran across a UR where the routing engine doesn't seem to be following the rules for median u-turn prevention. All the rule are satisfied, 3 segments, in/out opposite in direction, exactly parallel, 13m median, should prohibit U-turn.

You can see enough of the routing to know it wasn't right after starting navigation or recalculating. And as far as routing penalties are concerned, there is an obvious alternative with a penalty that would only be trivially higher than the u-turn would be if legal.

Is the u-turn enabled at the point where the driver actually made the turn?

We have found the cross-segment u-turn penalty violated quite a number of times, but never able to duplicate in Livemap, which lends support to the violation being due to the penalty being exceeded because of traffic delays, most often when there is no nearby legitimate u-turn, or "around the block" routing that does not entail a PLR or PVT.
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby ruggles76 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

No, the U-turn was not enabled where the driver actually made it.

In this case, there was a valid low-penalty alternate route not involving a U-turn, east on Forest Glen Pkwy and north on Woodridge Dr, west on 75th St. At least, it's low-penalty without consideration for traffic. GPS points don't suggest major traffic issues there, but you never know.

We were also unable to duplicate this either in Live Map or the app. We've also seen it before, although infrequently and mostly in situations where it was harder to find an alternate low-penalty route. I'm told this one has now been escalated to staff.
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Re: Median U-Turn Routing Bug

Postby PesachZ » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:37 pm

taco909 wrote:
ruggles76 wrote:Ran across a UR where the routing engine doesn't seem to be following the rules for median u-turn prevention. All the rule are satisfied, 3 segments, in/out opposite in direction, exactly parallel, 13m median, should prohibit U-turn.

You can see enough of the routing to know it wasn't right after starting navigation or recalculating. And as far as routing penalties are concerned, there is an obvious alternative with a penalty that would only be trivially higher than the u-turn would be if legal.

Is the u-turn enabled at the point where the driver actually made the turn?

We have found the cross-segment u-turn penalty violated quite a number of times, but never able to duplicate in Livemap, which lends support to the violation being due to the penalty being exceeded because of traffic delays, most often when there is no nearby legitimate u-turn, or "around the block" routing that does not entail a PLR or PVT.

The U-turn penalty is much higher than the time taken for going around the block even in traffic in NYC.

I actually looked at this yesterday, and submitted this one to staff. I'm still waiting for a response on the last one I sent. If I hear back I'll be sure to update here, let's leave this one open for a little while to give them a chance.

triordan wrote:@PesachZ

Do you still need that first UR at the BBDowns Intersection open? Or are we thinking that's the same issue?

PL: https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lo ... emFilter=0


BBDowns was different, we know it was a recalculation after he didn't follow the directions, which is a confirmed root cause of failures. Here the erroneous route is reproducible ni livemap, and we have not yet confirmed that it was a recalculation.
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby ruggles76 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:04 pm

You were able to get it to reproduce in Live Map? That's encouraging. Gizmo and I weren't successful doing that, or reproducing it in the app.
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby RafaCintron » Fri May 05, 2017 4:33 pm

Hi.
Another u-turn restriction violation (see PL). As you can see, the three rules are satisfied. It should not route thru that u-turn.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=row&lon=-69.96608&lat=18.49198&zoom=7&segments=192673861
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby voludu2 » Thu May 18, 2017 9:40 pm

I had an incident like this in the US. permalink.

The angle between incoming and outgoing segments is 177 degrees and the median segment is 14 m - the u-turn prevention rules should be followed.


Have the rules for u-turn prevention changed?

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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby voludu2 » Thu May 18, 2017 11:16 pm

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I thought some more about my example.
I did report in the UR an illegal u-turn that did not follow a reroute or come immediately after the start of a route.

But the example I showed in the route tester is not a fair example because I gave waze very few options. This points out a known weakness of this kind of u-turn prevention. This u-turn prevention is not absolute, like red arrows are. If all other options involve higher or absolute penalties (such as defying red arrows or driving through parking lots) or "long enough" distances, the u-turn prevention penalty will not be great enough to prevent the u-turn. I cannot reproduce this illegal u-turn with a "fair" example.

Two things:
1) I still do not trust this form of u-turn prevention. So I prefer bow-ties, "z-segments" and other ugly solutions whenever I can get away with it. But that does not follow the guidelines, so I do this rarely.
2) The u-turn arrows should really be enabled on a lot of roads. This would give waze a better chance of turning wazers around legally when required and avoiding some of the situations where a u-turn should be prevented by the penalty is not large enough compared to penalties on other routes.

Here is the unfair route. u-turns are prevented everywhere! other options for turning involved parking lots or long distances.
[ img ]

If I give waze something much closer to the route I was driving that day, then it makes different choices.
[ img ]

Sometimes, even if I give it the difficult route, it takes a longer, but still legal, choice.
It surprises me that the illegal u-turn sometimes beats this route:
[ img ]

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