U-turn editing?

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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby triordan » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:39 pm

I followed all the wiki rules but users are still getting routed via UTURN at this intersection. Any suggestions on how I can prevent these instructions?

PL: https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lo ... st=5168116

[ img ]

I'm thinking maybe a AGC for left turns is in order?

[ img ]
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby PesachZ » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:44 pm

triordan wrote:I followed all the wiki rules but users are still getting routed via UTURN at this intersection. Any suggestions on how I can prevent these instructions?

PL: https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lo ... st=5168116

[ img ]

I'm thinking maybe a AGC for left turns is in order?

[ img ]

Let's first leave it untouched for a proper investigation, perhaps we can uncover a bug. Can you ascertain from the reporter please?
A) was this a recalc of some sort for a missed the or the like?
B) what is their navigation routing preference set as <fastest/shortest>

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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby triordan » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:50 pm

Questions submitted to reporter. Thank you PesachZ.
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby triordan » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:31 pm

Answers to your questions:

"I believe it was provided from the beginning, and it recalculated after we turned left (as we could turn, just not a uturn as per instruction). My preference is set to fastest"
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby taco909 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:11 pm

Another thing to keep in mind is if there is or is not a valid alternative route.
If no u-turn is available further down the road, and no reasonable "around the block" path exists, then the u-turn penalty will be ignored.
Also, these are penalty based, not hard restrictions like one-way or red arrows, so heavy traffic may also contribute.

Agreed with not touching it until a Champ can look at it.
Can you duplicate the route in Livemap?
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby fjsawicki » Sun May 01, 2016 9:50 pm

We just had a second u-turn prevention failure at the intersection triordan reported above. The UR which shows the track is PL

I tried the same intersection on livemap several times and the u-turn never occurs. PL


I'll ask the same two questions that were requested of triordan.

****************************
They just replied and said their app was set to fastest and there was no recalc

****************************

Any other information we can supply ?

Thanks
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby PesachZ » Mon May 02, 2016 5:00 am

fjsawicki wrote:We just had a second u-turn prevention failure at the intersection triordan reported above. The UR which shows the track is PL

I tried the same intersection on livemap several times and the u-turn never occurs. PL


I'll ask the same two questions that were requested of triordan.

****************************
They just replied and said their app was set to fastest and there was no recalc

****************************

Any other information we can supply ?

Thanks

I replied in the UR, there definitely was a recalc here. The reporter didn't say there was no recalc, just that it was a regular route. Judging by the included GPS traces in the UR he started on Bruce B Downs Blvd (perhaps getting at the previous ramp, or from before, but it doesn't matter), then turned right onto Pointe of Tampa Way which seems like it must have been off course. If the app told him to make that right turn, I want to find out why. If he made that turn against the Navigation instructions, that would have forced a recalc which then explains why a U-turn was provided.

One possible theory here is he was coming off of I-75 S and went right at the fork on the exit ramp instead of left (the prompt at that fork wouldn't give any decision help except the turn direction). Once off the ramp he realized his mistake and turned off trying to get back on course the opposite direction. The app recalculated and offered the U-turn. Of course this is all speculation, we'll have to see if he replies again.

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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby fjsawicki » Mon May 02, 2016 2:13 pm

I appreciate you getting involved. I had read the warning about recalcs in the wiki but thought it had to be a little more immediate to the intersection to trigger this problem

It is possible for this method to fail to prevent a U-turn when it is the first segment of a route, or it immediately follows a reroute. If you observe this method to fail in other situations when it is implemented properly, please report it in this forum thread


thanks again
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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby PesachZ » Mon May 02, 2016 6:42 pm

fjsawicki wrote:I appreciate you getting involved. I had read the warning about recalcs in the wiki but thought it had to be a little more immediate to the intersection to trigger this problem

It is possible for this method to fail to prevent a U-turn when it is the first segment of a route, or it immediately follows a reroute. If you observe this method to fail in other situations when it is implemented properly, please report it in this forum thread


thanks again

There are two manners of the recalc / new route penalty failure.
1) As you quoted from the wiki, when a new route is calculated by the server it can possibly ignore very nearby penalties. This is easy to diagnose, but that does not seem to be what happened here.
2) A second possible cause of failure is 'client-based routing' AKA offline routing. Typically this is harder to diagnose, and may require further information from the reporter to confirm. 'Client-based routing' is only aware of information included in the tiles cached on the device, which does not include server based algorithms e.g. U-turn Prevention, penalties, and real time closures.
  • One way to spot these is when the UR appears elsewhere / without traces, since if the client was offline it would not allow reporting a UR.
  • The other we find these is when a driver has a connected navigation in progress, but then misses a turn (or the GPS fix strays and the client thinks they went off course). In these cases to facilitate quick recovery back to your route the client will first attempt to generate a short routes back onto your original route, and then continue the original navigation. (If the client fails to quickly generate that recovery route, it will pass off the calculation to the server which will effectively generate a new complete route from the current location to the original destination.)

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Re: U-turn editing?

Postby fjsawicki » Mon May 02, 2016 9:30 pm

Thanks for taking us through the possibilities. It's really helpful, not only in this situation but in understanding the issues that can come up in routing in general.

It also made me think about the previous reporter's route and triordan's UR (PL). His reporter appeared to have a destination that was south on I-75. If that was the case, coming west on Bruce B Downs he should have been routed south on the ramp long before he got to where he was given the u-turn. Unless he missed the ramp exit.

He could have also gotten to the same starting point (where his purple waze route starts) coming north on I-75 but it's hard imagine that happening in any legitimate unbroken route.
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