If they are making bad edits then revolt their editing right to send a message if they do not want to do better. I am a level 3 but do my best to do things right. If I mess up I will hope to get a pm about it so that I can learn the right way.


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DwarfLord wrote:

vectorspace wrote:Then later perhaps I was jaded by continual edits of the same area over and over again by new editors coming aboard. They seem to be attracted to "hot-spots" of editing where roadways are split, unnecessary turn lanes are entered, and turn restrictions are all reset to "allow"

I tell my friends that once I became a Waze editor, not just a Waze user, it was like that old saw; losing interest in eating sausage once you've seen it being made. I still use Waze as my primary navigation source. But I've seen so many cases of novice editors blithely closing primary roads, and handled so many URs from poor Wazers who got sent on a wild goose chase through the neighborhoods as a result, that it is impossible for me to trust it as much as I'd like.

It may be that the locking system simply is not up to the task we are asking it to do. Ideally it would motivate editors who are careful while improving the performance of editors who aren't, but at the end of the day locking systems are just damage control. Over the months I've used the forums I've seen repeated references to locking something at 4 so the 3's can't touch it, locking at 5 so the 4's can't touch it, and even locking at 6 so the 5's can't touch it. Those stories tell me that the locking system, while useful and necessary, is not enough.

Some time ago in an obscure thread (probably in many others) someone floated the idea of a entrance exam before a person could make even one edit. The more I think about this idea the more I like it. We know very well what kind of mistakes novice editors make, and we also know that the vast majority make those mistakes not out of malice but unguided zeal. It would not be hard to craft a test that would hit the high points. It wouldn't even have to be secret. Sure, find a cheat sheet and copy the answers! We are not trying to mint Ph.D.s, just to ensure that editors start with some minimum awareness.

If the test to begin editing took, say, 10-15 minutes, that right there might discourage the ones who add a lot of red roads and roundabouts in their first week and never come back.

Here's an example of a test I came up with in another thread. It was meant partly as a joke, but only partly:

viewtopic.php?f=129&t=81387&start=30#p714161

We would of course need Waze management to support this concept, and I don't know how easy that would be or whether they would go for it. But I really do think it would dramatically reduce novice errors, not to mention the burden on senior editors finding and fixing those errors.

I would agree with this. I wish that there was something like this when I started editing to help me learn at the beginning and not make all the mistakes I made .


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DwarfLord wrote:If blocking is reserved only for editors who are both unresponsive to contacts and responsible for egregious and continuing damage specifically to routing; and

If Waze will not provide tools to require reception of community messages as a condition of continued editing; and

If it continues to be easy and automatic to reach Rank 2 regardless of the quality of one's edits and without any kind of communication or supervision;

Then we only have three choices.

1. Resign ourselves to a practice of locking the maps at higher ranks at the cost of further limiting good entry-level editors and increasing the unlock/update workload on advanced editors;

2. Resign ourselves to mopping up after uninformed editors, who may continue to make uninformed edits below the blocking threshold, at the cost of losing advanced-editors' time that would otherwise be spent mentoring, responding to URs and closure situations, or applying FC.

3. Allow the map to be damaged, say "oh well", and go fishing.

I don't like any of these choices, but since we are forced to choose, I choose #1. Although #3 has a certain charm.

3 does sound good but we can't do that. A one day break to fish might be ok.


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I like Fw and Ramps at 5 and have been putting Mh at 3 as I've been converting US hwys to Mh, but below that, due to to rural areas not always getting timely reviews by AM's I am hesitant about going lower. I have yet to see evidence of vandalism or even accidental editing in those rural areas that would be problematic and justify locking out newer local editors.

If we lock everything down, we risk cutting off a steady flow of new editors, which is needed.
Tapatalking via my Galaxy S4

As one of only a few non champ L6 editors, that is my mission in life, "Protecting editors from Tyannical Champs".

Tapatalking via my Galaxy S4

While not on board with most of Superdave's complaints I agree that most of those locks are too high, FW yes 5 absolutely. Having found sections of metro freeways changed to street type before (luckily I caught it before it went live as that was back when we could go a couple weeks to a month between tile updates) Freeways must be locked at a high level. But nothing else should be auto locked above 3 and I'd keep it to MH only, mh and ps should not be autolocked. Let AM's and CM's selectively lock those when and where problem editing occurs.

Tapatalking via my Galaxy S4

Good points but I still say with the exception of Fw/R nothing should be default locked to above 3. I usually put ramps at 4, to allow high level AM's to adjust them as they get reconstructed a little more often than the Freeways do. And in rural areas I drop that to lvl 3. I've always been very sparse in my use of locks anyway, mostly because in the bad old days a road that I locked when I was level 3 is now locked at level 5 based on my getting promoted to that rank.

Vector has pretty much nailed the limited times I do use locks, but 4 for MH is too high. These roads are constantly under construction (every spring the barrels bloom nationwide), having new roads attached or intersections rebuilt. If someone has gone through the process to achieve AM status (L3) then I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt as to whether I trust them to edit those roads. I may get burned occasionally, but more often than not I don't. If an L3 editor makes a mistake I correct it and try to mentor them. If they insist on continuing then I start bouncing locks to 4 or higher.

That is also an option, but revoking editing privileges is not something I can just do. I can however pm and mentor them and start locking thinks on them until they do start heeding my advice. It also is a way to limit damage until I can build sufficient case to have Jemay review the situation. I haven't had to refer someone to higher since before we had RC's.

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vectorspace wrote:Then later perhaps I was jaded by continual edits of the same area over and over again by new editors coming aboard. They seem to be attracted to "hot-spots" of editing where roadways are split, unnecessary turn lanes are entered, and turn restrictions are all reset to "allow"

I tell my friends that once I became a Waze editor, not just a Waze user, it was like that old saw; losing interest in eating sausage once you've seen it being made. I still use Waze as my primary navigation source. But I've seen so many cases of novice editors blithely closing primary roads, and handled so many URs from poor Wazers who got sent on a wild goose chase through the neighborhoods as a result, that it is impossible for me to trust it as much as I'd like.

It may be that the locking system simply is not up to the task we are asking it to do. Ideally it would motivate editors who are careful while improving the performance of editors who aren't, but at the end of the day locking systems are just damage control. Over the months I've used the forums I've seen repeated references to locking something at 4 so the 3's can't touch it, locking at 5 so the 4's can't touch it, and even locking at 6 so the 5's can't touch it. Those stories tell me that the locking system, while useful and necessary, is not enough.

Some time ago in an obscure thread (probably in many others) someone floated the idea of a entrance exam before a person could make even one edit. The more I think about this idea the more I like it. We know very well what kind of mistakes novice editors make, and we also know that the vast majority make those mistakes not out of malice but unguided zeal. It would not be hard to craft a test that would hit the high points. It wouldn't even have to be secret. Sure, find a cheat sheet and copy the answers! We are not trying to mint Ph.D.s, just to ensure that editors start with some minimum awareness.

If the test to begin editing took, say, 10-15 minutes, that right there might discourage the ones who add a lot of red roads and roundabouts in their first week and never come back.

Here's an example of a test I came up with in another thread. It was meant partly as a joke, but only partly:

viewtopic.php?f=129&t=81387&start=30#p714161

We would of course need Waze management to support this concept, and I don't know how easy that would be or whether they would go for it. But I really do think it would dramatically reduce novice errors, not to mention the burden on senior editors finding and fixing those errors.

Thanks so much vectorspace for the great information!

If Waze HQ would balk at an entrance exam, how about a voluntary exam that you always pass even if you get every answer wrong?

It sounds ridiculous at first. But the vast majority of novice editors don't mean any harm and I bet many of them would welcome some kind of interactive test. It could be made a lot of fun, like a game, if a skilled person put a lot of effort into it. What editor could turn something like that down? OK, so you get all the answers wrong, who cares, you can edit anyway. But it will be there in the back of your mind -- "I missed things on that test" -- and maybe you will try again.

Maybe a fake town map can be created with a number of things wrong, and the editor could be asked to ensure that routing from A to B will work. When they hit "go" the router calculates the route and displays it. If it isn't the correct route, the editor has to figure out what's wrong. When they leave, the fake town is reset.

This isn't negative or punitive, we're just trying to come up with tools that will let novice editors learn things without having to learn them the hard way. If they can have fun in the learning, great!