Although I can understand the standards set by other regions I support these standards for the Southwest region. I would like to suggest that with the mentoring program and promotion ability that we push for the immunity on the AM status editors and if implemented we could consider the higher locks as the review process is certainly set at a higher standard for AM approval and rights to those editors should be reflected in editing abilities.
At that time the MH and mH rank 4 lock would be more feasible to the local community. IMO

Not an attempt to answer for irowiki, but I find a regional discussion for level locks beneficial, not as a locking standard but for a regional input to the nation wide discussion of level locks and the vastly diversified aspects we contend with.
An example is the input from you and daknife has promoted my thought process away from the higher locks to accommodate the influx of new editors as well as allowing the local AMs more influence on the editing in their areas. And not to fail mention of our wide open areas that are not monitored as well due to editing privileges and lack of AMs in the areas.
We have a unique combination of roadway systems in this region that would not always fit well with other regions and this discussion can be used for a consensus at the Southwest Regional level as substantial influence at the national level.

Bummer
But I do not feel we should let your mentee completely off the hook as he did start the topic, and I for one am very interested in his response

daknife wrote:While not on board with most of Superdave's complaints I agree that most of those locks are too high, FW yes 5 absolutely. Having found sections of metro freeways changed to street type before (luckily I caught it before it went live as that was back when we could go a couple weeks to a month between tile updates) Freeways must be locked at a high level. But nothing else should be auto locked above 3 and I'd keep it to MH only, mh and ps should not be autolocked. Let AM's and CM's selectively lock those when and where problem editing occurs.

Tapatalking via my Galaxy S4

I agree with this with the thought on reconsidering the mH locked to a 2, with the FC implementation it would be easy for an rank 1 to mistake these as a street (not highway) and do some unnecessary changes that will need to be redone. (Rank 1 - "That is not a highway and I can fix it")
But any rank 2 should have enough knowledge to have read the wiki in some form or fashion on the new requirements for FCs.

We have such a ridiculously large amount of long and short-duration ramp closures in Southern Cal - especially Inland Empire area - that it does tend to get frustrating when I have to constantly PM ottonomy or others for an unlock. Add in the fact that the Report --> Closure featuer has issues of its own, and it can become a real burden trying to make changes to ramps.

However, I will say that ottonomy has enlightened me in a couple of cases with ramps. Also, I've seen recent works by 3's that make me question whether a 3 should even be allowed to do such work unsupervised. I guess locking them at 4 could be a happy medium then. It isn't much better, but it is a necessary evil to set them higher.

I have been following these lock standard forums but have until now to respond because I wasn't sure how I felt. I agree with vectorspace when it comes to error on the low side. Being one of the few still active SD area managers I get a lot of interaction with the city. Even with all the colleges our newer editor population down here isn't very active. And when they are they are too busy mapping out the million malls we have down here with every parking lot spot. I have corrected a few as I see them, but most don't seem to monitor forums or chat. Now I say this because the idea of locking SD down to such high levels is only going to cause me and the 3 other level 3's that spend any time here to always being requiring update/unlock requests. Granted I understand that's what it's there for. But why put the need there? I can't think of any 4's I have seen in the SD area and there are only 1 or 2 5's who I rarely see anymore. Which puts it all on the CM's. I personally see this as unnecessary. We have little to no vandalism in SD so I don't see a high lock standard useful at all. Case by case basis excluded. We will always need to lock complicated or frequently incorrect areas.

Granted once I get to actually spend some time with my mentor stuff can start to change. (Maybe)


Just my .02

-Ski


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One thing I noticed while playing with the beta editor was the amount of level 6 locks in SD and surrounding cities. I know it has been talked about making the highest the traffic lock will go is 5. But even then, is it really necessary? If over 70% of primary street and above are TL at 5 then editing is going to get really difficult.


I know that it has been talked about AM immunity, but that involve Waze reprogramming the AM or traffic lock system. And we know how fast they are at that... I know I edit over 3/4 of SD from drives, because it takes a long time to get all that area approved.

IMO I think a standardized lock system on our end is the best option. Keeps the maps under editor control instead of Waze and will lesson our headaches. But it's something that needs to be pushed forward and presented to Waze. That way they know that we are for sure planning and not just talking.

-ski




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vectorspace wrote:

skidoomxz01 wrote:One thing I noticed while playing with the beta editor was the amount of level 6 locks in SD and surrounding cities. I know it has been talked about making the highest the traffic lock will go is 5. But even then, is it really necessary? If over 70% of primary street and above are TL at 5 then editing is going to get really difficult. ...

-ski

Ski,

There should be no Rank-6 locks unless there is some extraordinary issue going on, like vandalism, a rogue Rank-5 CM editors, construction or other differences between the areal images and real roads, etc. Rank-6 locks should typically also be temporary whenever possible, even though temporary may be months.

Rank-5 locks were generally agreed upon to be important for freeways and their ramps. There are unlock forums and any higher-rank editor that is willing to help can temporarily unlock these for your needs.

I have seen whole towns locked at Rank-5 for an unknown reason... we found out the Champ that did it and heard that there was a vandalism issue in the area, and one of their solutions was to lock down the area. Because everyone's busy, they forgot about it and didn't get back to it. We just recently mass-unlocked the town and applied some lower-level locks to roads per other parts of this discussion. So... what you're seeing may have been a legacy lock that was forgotten about by whoever did it.

I am concerned that you have seen Rank-6 locks in SD that you're worried about. Who did them, how old are those locks (best guess from last edit date)? Have you written to the person who is Rank-6 and asked? If you'd like me to take a look, send me a PM and I will give you a hand figuring it out.

My apologies. I meant traffic locks. I was playing in the practice mode on the beta editor and noticed all the 6 traffic locks.

I'm sure the max lock would be lowered upon the system being implemented here like in France and Canada. Was just making note of it.

My bad at not clarifying.



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You gents are missing a large part of this.

These locks are only a suggestion. A general standard that can be used to base decisions on.

Obviously your not going to lock down every road just because a forum or wiki said so. A large part of this was that if we are choosing a locking standard ourselves we won't have a need for traffic locks. Which in their current state can't be changed lower than what Waze's script thinks they should be.

If you are in a rural area locks aren't need needed as much. Or an area where a good amount of quality editors are active regularly to watch over the editing.

While I don't always agree with the level of lock for a road based on type. I see why they are needed, especially in a large city. And again, this gives us good supporting reasons to avoid a traffic locking system that we have much less control over.

Also it seems we are getting caught up in the name "highway" again when it comes to road type. The end user has no idea what type of road he/she is on. Just that they get routed down them. The FC gives a good variation of roads for Waze to prioritize with. Who cares what the road is labeled as in the editor.

I have seen going to and from work so many improvements in routing. Especially when the main roads have accidents or traffic. Instead of some random zigzag route, Waze will route me down a primary or minor highway. Even if it's a bit longer distance wise, it saves me all the stop and go of the zig zag it used to route me.

That's why we have forums and the Wiki is editable, if we decide that we are now using roads based on the level of the road rather than whatever the name of it is. Then we can change it. We call it progress.

Why get stuck on the past over a name?

Just my .02




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Coming in a bit late in this discussion. While I think that having some kind of standard might be a good thing, this:

irowiki wrote:In NM our strategy is evolving, but we're looking at something to the tune of:

FW/Ramps: 5
MH: 4
mH: 3
PS: 2

Is WAY too high, IMO. How on Earth are new editors going to every be able to get in any actual editing and get enough points to the level needed to edit something else?

This is supposed to be a community map editing project. If you make it too frustrating for new editors to actually accomplish anything, they're just going to get discouraged and wander away.

It's bad enough that this new FC crap for determining street types in the map causes a two-lane local road to suddenly be classified as "Major Highway" just because a (possibly outdated) document found online lists it as being a "Primary Artery" (even though no driver in their right mind would consider the road that they're driving on to be a "Major Highway"). But now you want to lock the roads to various levels based on this somewhat arbitrary policy, making it harder for new people to step up and start helping out?

No, thank you.

Even before this whole FC thing came about, I've locked certain actually important roads within the city at Rank 2 because the satellite imagery just made them too tempting a target for a completely new editor to decide to split. So I took proactive action after clearing the idea first with Jemay and did that. It keeps a completely rank-amateur editor from being over-enthusiastic, while still allowing newer editors who have hopefully learned some things by the time they got to Rank 2 to be able to make needed changes without having to pester me, another AM, or the RC.

To me, that is a reasonable use of the editor lock. Simply locking things (especially as high as suggested in the example above) based on a street type set within Waze is not.