Greetings, as a younger member of the community it appears that that this would result in a higher lock level for many of the categories I routinely edit. What would be the best way to handle now a larger need for locking? I know I have had a personal locking sheet, can this be expanded to a region model?

What are peoples thoughts on School? Should they be locked at Rank 2 or Rank 3, I know I have seen many without an entry point created. It is one of the reasons I got into editing as my local school was incorrect.

Can we define what is considered a complete place? I know as a Rank 1 editor things quickly changed with a place once I became a rank 2 editor with the addition of external providers, now granted a Rank 1 cant lock a place to rank 2 nor can they add an external provider however does this mean that a rank 1 can complete a place?

Can you add alternating shading to the table for easier reading, similar to what is on our road segment type locking tables seen in many states pages.

In terms of Train Stations I know that the Long Island Railroad has guidance for Rank 3 Locks.

Ok, makes sense to hold off on addressing other categories until you can reconcile the existing standards. My comment pertaining to the table was more a reflection of the visual appearance of The Locking Standards here.

Is there any updates on this?

mrsmith66 wrote: Side note - it feels to this NJ SM like all of these pushes for regional standard start with “NY recently did this “ or “PA recently did that”. To a certain degree it feels like the little states are being told that they have to do things the way the big states do.

First off, this is one of our (NOR) R3 editors bringing up a suggestion, with a more recently newer editors experience in kind. No one (not NY or PA) is forcing this on anyone nor is anyone from those states leadership behind this proposed suggestion. We encourage our mid and low rank editors to make suggestions they feel would benefit all of us based on their experiences that we (higher rank editors) might neglect or forget because we are used to certain things already. Remember they have a perspective on editing we don’t have anymore. To us, most things are common knowledge but to newer editors it’s not, and as Justin pointed out, most of the time isn’t even on the wiki. While I’m one to say not everything needs to be listed on the wiki, locking standards probably should be. Especially with the discouragement of new editors using scripts. We all rely on WMEPH to lock things for us but how will New editors learn what it should be locked at without WMEPH?

Remember direct communication with the community via Discord is not required to be an editor, and therefor some basics should be listed.

How can we ever have change and improve our standards if these aren’t at least encouraged to be discussed. While somethings are set in stone and very slim chance of ever changing with the tools provided to us, we should at least encourage open discussion and suggestions.

YourEvilTwinFTW wrote:I think it makes sense for the region to discuss why Gas Stations are locked so high, and if it's truly necessary. Maybe L3 is better. Or maybe there's a justified reason for GS to be L4 -- and if so, is there a warranted reason why DE would not need the same level of protection on their GS?

Gas stations should be locked R4+ IMO especially with most of them containing backend data that if erased can’t be recovered, also their direct interaction with the app that most other venue types don’t have. R3 is still able to be obtained simply by edit count alone not by quality and direct communication with us in Discord is not required to edit, R3 can happen (and has...) fast. At least R4 does require direct communication with the community and quality edit skills required to be granted R4. It must be earned and cannot simply be obtained.

NJMedic2535 wrote:I've got no objection to a regional locking standard for places. Places are a major feature of Waze now, and I don't think national place guidance has kept up.

My only concern is: have we solidified and published the UR handling practice for NOR? (I'd rather burn one bridge at a time.)

Yes UR guidance has already been published.

Thanks Justin for taking this on.

I also think where we can, having a uniform standard would always be optimum.

But as you know the more dense the Waze user group is, the higher the locking standards become.

So as an example NYC is higher that NY State.

So it makes sense that Delaware, might be lower than NY State as well.

So if the lower loving levels in those states which have less wazers can justify the higher locking levels I'm all for it.

But I don't see the need to lock train stations in Delaware higher that 3 just to have a regional standard.

This is one of the reasons we have state WoP pages, to help call out these differences.


So even though I am in favor of bringing as many items as close to national standards, I'm not convinced raising train station in Delaware just for uniformity it worth it.

Thanks All, John

jdelosa wrote:But as you know the more dense the Waze user group is, the higher the locking standards become.

So as an example NYC is higher that NY State.

So it makes sense that Delaware, might be lower than NY State as well.

So if the lower loving levels in those states which have less wazers can justify the higher locking levels I'm all for it.

But I don't see the need to lock train stations in Delaware higher that 3 just to have a regional standard.

This is one of the reasons we have state WoP pages, to help call out these differences.

So even though I am in favor of bringing as many items as close to national standards, I'm not convinced raising train station in Delaware just for uniformity it worth it.

Thanks JD!

Because each of the states in NOR had such similar verbiage on their place locking standard before PA & NY listed things out specifically, I made an assumption (possibly incorrect) that the states shared a lot of the same lock levels. The main differences I could find were gas stations (only in DE) and train stations. Like you said, population and density obviously vary from state to state, but despite this it seems our standard is almost exactly the same for each state. This is the reason having a unified standard seems attainable.

Doing a quick test I see that with the exception of train stations, all of the level 3 places listed in the place locking standard draft should also be locked at level 3 in DE, according to WMEPH. This is an "unwritten rule" not present in Delaware's Wazeopedia page, as it was for NY & PA not long ago. The other benefit of using this unified standard is not having things unwritten, but having clear guidelines laid out rather than having to rely on a script (WMEPH) or another editor with this knowledge to tell you.

If we could get a listing of places in DE and NJ that should be locked at 3, 4 & 5 we could see how close we really are on our locking standard. Where would this information be available?

mrsmith66 wrote:Is this a Solution in search of a Problem?

What issues are occurring with differing standards?

I guess my point was, I didn't see much of a difference in the standards at all. The main issue I see is the same one that I encountered when looking for answers on lock levels in NY. WMEPH locks things at a level that's supposed to be at the state's standard but they're not called out in the Wazopedia. The example I first encountered is the lock level of colleges in NY. WMEPH said 3, but the Wazo page had no mention of colleges making it seem like they should be 2. Asking around, I got different input from different people. The Wazo used "such as" and "etc" in the locking section and I just wanted a concrete answer. Because the states in NOR were seemingly so similar in their locking, I thought the states would benefit from having a more comprehensive list of places that should be locked at 3, 4 and 5.

mrsmith66 wrote:Side note - it feels to this NJ SM like all of these pushes for regional standard start with “NY recently did this “ or “PA recently did that”. To a certain degree it feels like the little states are being told that they have to do things the way the big states do.

The only reason NY & PA were brought up here is because they recently changed their place locking standard to list things more completely. As the Wazo reads now, I don't think this would be any different fundamentally from what NJ has in place, it just lists things more completely.

I apologize if the standard that has been proposed is a big departure from NJ's guidance - this wasn't my intent or understanding. Unfortunately all I have to work off of is what's in Wazopedia and WMEPH (the latter only gives me part of the story, however because I'm only L3 and WMEPH will only lock to that level automatically), and using these resources made it seem as though NORs standards were almost all aligned.

Thanks for your feedback!